Creators on the Couch – Pocus Hocus 6
Anthony: Hello, and welcome to Capes on the Couch, where comics get counseling. I’m Anthony Sytko.
Doc Issues: And I’m Dr. Issues.
Anthony: We are back with another Creators on the Couch episode.
And we are joined once again for the 311th time. I have legitimately lost track at this point of how many appearances our friends, Allen and Will are back on the show to talk about the latest Kickstarter for Pocus Hocus number six. Issues. And right now we’ve got Allen Dunford in the studio with us.
And Will, we’ll be joining us momentarily. So Allen, good to see you as always my friend.
Allen: Oh, listen, it feels like it’s been forever since I, you know, just looked at these two beautiful mugs. So it’s always just so, so great to be back. And and it’s been longer for Will, so I can’t wait for him to jump on here.
Yeah, Will is currently doing that thing that we all have to do, and that’s called working. So he’s on his way home now. He got held up a little bit.
Doc Issues: Yeah, damn, man. Oh, I can totally relate because
Allen: Oh, doc, your phone is like on your hip while we’re doing this. I
Doc Issues: was gonna say, I actually, that’s not even a joke.
I am on call, so Yeah. It may happen and it has happened before.
Allen: Oh, it will. Listen, it wouldn’t be an issue of capes on the couch if I were on here and you weren’t on call. It’s
Anthony: very true. Very true. Doc is always busy. Helping save the lives of so many people. And we are incredibly grateful for that.
Allen: I’m not, he hasn’t saved my life yet. What has he done for me?
Anthony: What have you done for me lately?
Allen: What have I, what have I done?
Doc Issues: Ouch.
Anthony: Oh man. So my friend, how have you been?
Allen: Man, been great. Just been been busy. And we’re so excited to have Pocus back. It’s like it’s been forever. Like, the original plan was to alternate between Pocus and Grandma, which In theory is a great idea. However, we know that there’s a bigger story to tell with Pocus than there was with Grandma.
And we always knew going in that Grandma was just going to be four issues, right? So, originally, like I said, it was like back forth, back forth, but then we were like, you know what? We’re so close to finishing Grandma. Let’s just go ahead and have a full completed series under our belt. And let’s let’s shove a cat up anthony’s ass so, you know, we really had to like go in for that
But yeah, man, no, it’s it’s so good because Pocus was the series that started it all off for us And it’s it’s great to to feel like we’re back to formula with it
Anthony: That’s that’s fantastic, you know
and book number six the kickstarter is live. I saw it, I think I happen to be on twitter just randomly And you had just posted that the kickstarter went live like that day.
That’s what I was like. Oh perfect I get to be a day one backer.
Allen: Yeah Yeah and you get a fancy little tarot card for doing that too.
Anthony: That’s that’s awesome. Can’t wait to talk about it some more. And certainly, you know, when, when Will jumps on we’ll get his feedback as well.
So POCUS 6, obviously we are. In the thick of things.
Oh, yeah, dude. And purpose is,
Allen: we are thick and tired, dude. .
Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. pocus is so the, I don’t think it’s too much of a spoiler since it, especially since it’s on the Kickstarter page. Mm-Hmm. and,
Allen: yeah, it’s very hard this point.
Anthony: Yeah. We can’t really talk about what has happened and, and what’s to come without getting into some spoilers.
Correct. But the chapter is called The Death of Pocus Hocus.
So that’s good. Yep. Yeah.
Allen: All right. See you guys. Yeah, it was a fun ride.
Anthony: That’s cool. All right, cool So it ends with six Sweet. All right. Well, it’s been fun. It’s been real.
I’m, very curious though because I literally like right before right before we we jumped on recording I grabbed my trade of book one just to refresh my stuff.
It
is
Anthony: it is it is gorgeous
Allen: Yeah,
Anthony: there’s a gorgeous you know, rainbow hologram covered tome. That
Allen: really just made me so happy looking at it.
Anthony: Yeah. I mean, you did this, you created this. I’m holding it in my hands, but you, you wrote this. that’s frigging awesome.
I’m trying to talk about the story without too many spoilers for what’s to come Pocus is in he’s in some
deep doo doo at this point.
Allen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Pocus is in some deep doo doo.
So for those of you who are new to the series Pocus hocus follows the story of a magician named pocus hocus Who solhis a soul to the devil? Well not to the devil. I guess I should say he sold a soul to a demon to have actual magic powers and this is like I I love faustian tales So much.
And, I’m speaking for Will with this too. We wanted to really make our own twist on one, and that’s kind of how this, this came to be. So, after Pocus tells us all years later, he comes to regret that decision, and then he wants it back. So, We literally have to go through hell to, to get the thing.
And this is literally, yeah, this is just primarily literally. Oh yeah, definitely literally. But yeah, this has just been such a fun ride for us. We’ve been just enjoying it every step of the way, but where we are now we find out that the demon that Pocus sold a soul to, we really wanted to, you know, To do a play on demons having gambling problems So the the demon that Pocus sold the soul to actually doesn’t have the soul anymore. He only had it for like five minutes because he just bet it away immediately and lost it and throughout the cycle it ended up in the hands of Our big demon that actually has Pocus’s soul name’s lily And it’s our journey now to to go fight this actual evil creature because like with our demon You he was lovable.
He was lovably evil and he’s just stupid, but he’s fun but lily she’s just mean and she I can’t wait till we get into the the issue where we actually get to go into her more. Because she was one that we wanted to get right whenever we were fleshing out her backstory but yeah, so that’s that’s where we are.
We’re caught up. We’re we’re at the event now where Issue five, and we even show this in the preview, issue five ends with Emily being captured by Lily’s right hand man, and Now Emily’s going to have a choice on what she needs to do to try to make sure that everyone makes it out alive
Doc Issues: Yeah, yeah, and they certainly take it seriously.
Allen: Yeah I promise this book’s actually way funnier than what i’m making it out to be because right now it sounds like a total bummer
Anthony: See, I don’t think it’s a bummer. I think it’s going to be as as They often are this hilarious and rollercoaster Emotionally speaking of of a story That you you weave the horror and the humor so well together.
You walk that tightrope. Well, thank you and is not an easy thing to do. And again, just just, you know, refreshing myself on on the story through the first couple of issues before we started. I was like, man, this is damn good writing. Thank you. Yeah, my question is because we like to focus on some of the, the psychology of the characters here.
And, and so Pocus. As has been stated numerous times in, in the series is doing this, or at least started off with all of this seeking the approval of his father that he was never really going to get it. And his father says at the end of book four, and you know, it’s not really spoilers at this point, I wanted you to follow your heart because your heart wasn’t in magic.
It’s like, whoops. Are we ever going to kind of explore perhaps what his. Passion would have been or could have been.
Allen: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, 100
Anthony: Okay.
Allen: Okay. Yeah that that was like we knew what Pocus well we as in will and myself We knew what Pocus really wanted to do since since day one.
Doc Issues: Wow.
Allen: And It’s it’s funny like don’t don’t get your hopes up. But yeah, it was it was one of those things. I think will was the one that actually created that And it was just it was like yeah, dude, we we have to use that because it’s so stupid, but it just works so well Yeah, because that that’s the big thing right and it’s what Pocus really wants to do Is is going to play in a lot with other character arcs, too Because we we still want the story to keep going even after this arc, you know, as long as people are reading it Hey, we’ll we’ll keep writing the thing because you know, we already have it mapped out for 12 issues.
You know and again, it’s just one of those like as long as people are reading Will will and I will keep trying to hammer this thing out because we’re just having too much fun with it
Doc Issues: Yeah, I, you know, this, this actually does have a very deep underlying thing that I’ve been thinking about for a long time now.
And that’s purpose, like, just the idea of, what keeps you going. Right. And yeah, we initially, you know, we get the idea that it’s his dad and it’s like, okay, so his soul is not nearly as important as, following that path and then, okay, well, that’s not going to work. All right. Well, what about the people around it?
Well, they’re going to make a lot of sacrifices. So
Allen: Doc, I love that you said that because that’s actually what this issue focuses on. This issue focuses on his decision to sell his soul and to rope His assistant and how this is affecting her now too, and the extra responsibility that it plays on him.
Because in our preview pages it was kind of hard to hide it because it’s the first, you know, six pages of the book. And we really wanted our color palette to, to show off that decision too. Emily is in color because it while she’s in hell because she has her soul and it still makes her special But in those preview pages emily is black and white now because she sold her soul to try to save Pocus and as you guys can see in the preview pages Pocus dies so it’s one of those yeah, the the deal was held up Pocus survived that attack that they had But that doesn’t mean he had to live afterward.
So we really get to see, we get to kind of see the consequences of that. And I, I think the payoff for that is going to be a lot of fun.
Anthony: Okay. All right now you said so you said you have this planned out for at least 12 issues But there is the potential for more?
Allen: Yeah, definitely like With a book like grandma chainsaw, we we knew that the story existed in a vacuum because we didn’t want the story to wear out its welcome like as much fun as we were having with it We also didn’t want it to get too long in the tooth, right?
So we we had a beginning middle end. Okay, cool. That’s it. We’re done yeah, we can always Do something crazy and potentially bring the story back maybe at some point but it just telling a cohesive story made sense for us with that but with Pocus Hocus With fantasy like the way that we’re trying to do it and like the the different dimensions of hell and all this stuff There’s just there’s so much we can do so we The sky’s the limit with this kind of stuff and that’s what makes me really happy about telling these kinds of stories, especially Just because I yeah, I just love it.
Anthony: That’s cool, man. And I love again the world building and the the care that’s put into to some of these characters and we’ll get into Horus a little bit later and we can talk about him because that’s it. Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. Yeah, it’s its own thing.
I’m very, excited and looking forward to where Horus is going to go from here.
Allen: Yeah, I can’t wait to talk to you guys about that with with Will, because we already we have Horus mapped out pretty far, too.
Anthony: Nice. Oh, that’s awesome. Awesome.
Allen: Yeah.
Anthony: Will, get your ass in here, man. Come on.
Allen: I know. I know.
Yeah, he should I would think that he should be here just about any minute now.
Anthony: Okay. All right. That’s, that’s fair. But what else was I going to say? Well, the other question I had about Emily, and I don’t want to remember if we, we ever really got into this discussion at any one of the prior episodes talking about the series, but what is really her motivation to.
To stay with Pocus. I mean, I know she, she wants to be the assistant. She wants to learn magic and everything, but it seems like she’s gone awfully far for a boss. Now I don’t know about the rest of y’all, but if my boss was going to hell, it’d be like peace out. I’m good. You, you do you boo boo. Yeah.
I’m out, so I, I’m not, I’m not getting dragged into this mess. So she’s really a dedicated employee?
Allen: Yeah. Oh yeah. She’s definitely employee of the year. So I, I can’t say a lot about that because that’s a that’s a big plot point. Yeah. For issue seven and eight. Okay. Yeah, because we really find out who and why.
Emily is working the way that she is, right? And Emily’s backstory was actually something that we, we really finally had hammered down about issue three, because we wanted to make sure we gave her weight, but on the surface right now, Emily her motivation is her motivation is kind of guilt. And that comes from an issue too When she helped Pocus walk someone into this giant chamber so that they could sell their soul Unknowingly, right?
Yeah. So now emily’s like, you know, you made me do this You didn’t tell me what was going on and we just did something else Awful.
Doc Issues: Yep.
Allen: So that was kind of the, the motivation there for Emily to be like, nope, we’re, we have to fix this. Like, this is just too much.
Anthony: Okay. So, I mean, I do definitely understand that part of it, but I still kind of feel like, I don’t know, I don’t, if, if I got unwittingly dragged into something like that, I would still say, you know, You got to fix this.
Cause I didn’t know what was going on. And you know, I may feel like I may feel like crap, but it’s not my responsibility to fix it. And we talk all the time on the show, you know, it’s not your fault, but it is your problem. I would say this isn’t my fault. And it’s not my problem. Yeah, no, you straightened it out.
I’m going to wait here.
And
Doc Issues: keep saying, yeah, but that implies, you know what, and, and that is the common thing with most sidekicks. And I will give the example of inspector gadget. Penny doesn’t wait on anybody. She knew like, okay, this guy may have all this stuff that he could do, but he needs me because I am the practical.
Brains of this operation, even if he doesn’t know it
Allen: right
Doc Issues: and I always got that vibe with her and pocus So
Allen: we wanted emily to be like the only good character you know, like you got pocus who is just he’s flawed and then you have the demon Who’s flawed and then we we have Horus and I like to think Horus is our pure little evil bunny.
And of course, you know We’ll get in the Horus whenever we we talk to will but yeah, it’s just Emily is just I wanted emily to really just be the reader, you know Like this is what happens when you’re thrown into something like this and they they can relate to her
Okay, that’s,
Anthony: that’s fair, you know, and, and hearing it that way, I understand it.
You know, I was just, like I said coming at it from the, the perspective of, you know, I’m not sticking my neck out for my boss.
Allen: Oh yeah, no way. Yeah. Corporate America does not love me that much.
Anthony: Yeah. That’s why it’s called work.
Allen: Yeah.
Anthony: Yeah. No, I understand about labor and all that, but no, no, not, not going that far.
So gosh, I mean, there’s so many things I still want to ask about, but I want to wait for Will to come on so he can provide his, his feedback. Yeah. You want to like, we’ll take a quick pause. You want to like shoot him a text, whatever.
Yeah.
Allen: Yeah. So we can, we can go ahead and pause here. That’s fine.
Anthony: So now we’re back from our little hiatus and we are joined, by will radford co writer and co creator of Pocus will thanks for joining us.
Apologies. We’re
Will: starting without
Anthony: you
Will: Oh, no. Thanks so much. Sorry. I was a little late.
Allen: Well, I just said, thank you guys for starting without me.
Doc Issues: Well, you know yeah. Like, some of us don’t understand the concept of, like, work. So, you know.
Will: That’s okay. I don’t either, really. You know, it’s still a mystery to me, but doing my best.
I have a job now that’s a lot better than my last gig, so I’m pretty happy. Oh, that’s really good to hear. Despite my haggard appearance. Things are, are looking up.
Yeah, they’re, they are. They’re looking up. I just need to shave like really, really bad.
Anthony: Yeah, I, I get that too. I reached a point where I only shave about once a week because I just get tired of it.
Yeah. So, we talked to Allen real fast. But how are you doing otherwise?
Will: Yeah, great. This is my favorite time of year. I’m excited about that and making things better. You know, we have the, I think the seasonal appropriate comic book to go on with that. So that’s very, you know, that’s very exciting.
It hit me when this campaign was being launched that it was, you know, so close to Halloween and how great that was. And I think Allen, if I’m not mistaken. My days and, and everything in my head just gets muddled together anymore. I believe what they say about old age and memory, that’s 100 percent happening to me.
But I think we started the first Pocus Hocus. Was the campaign was launched was it was it or we finished it in October, right? The issue?
Allen: No, I think we actually finished it on your birthday.
Will: Oh, okay,
Allen: because that’s how I equate it I I remember we we finished it on your birthday. I’m pretty sure
Will: Okay, maybe we started we
Allen: started writing pocus one in october in
Will: october.
That’s yeah Okay.
Allen: Yeah, we started writing it in october and then We felt comfortable enough to launch the campaign
Will: Knew there was
Allen: birthday. Yeah,
Will: I knew there was an October date in there somewhere. ’cause for whatever reason, I just remembered the the title page of the first issue with our names on it.
And at the, the draft. The draft, yeah. Was like October 20.
Allen: Yeah. ’cause that’s when we, we Yeah. We were, yeah. 2020. That’s why we’re working on it. . Yeah. Four years ago, dude, we started. That’s
Will: absolutely crazy. Yeah. It’s
Allen: bonkers, isn’t it?
Will: Yeah, it really is.
Allen: Yeah, man.
Will: Nuts.
Allen: Oof.
Anthony: So we talked about Emily.
We talked about Pocus. We, we talked very briefly. We touched on, on Horus and I kind of wanted to wait for you to get back to talk about Horus. Lilith, I want to get into, or Lily, Lily, Lily, Lily, Lily, Lily, Lily, legs, Lily, sorry, I just All
Allen: right, remember, edit that out.
Anthony: Oh, no, I’m leaving in the Blazing Saddles reference.
Yeah, that’s classic. Come on now. So we’re really kind of seeing that she is definitely not to be trifled with. Right. And I know, you know, Will, before you got on, Allen mentioned that basically you have everything mapped out to at least issue 12. Is there an upcoming issue that is going to be very Lilith slash Lily centric, or is it the type of thing where we’re going to learn more about her in, you know, bits and pieces as the issues come out?
Will: Yes, both questions. Actually, I think I think a good answer. Yeah, no, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head a little bit there. There will I can’t especially with this particular plot thread. There’s a lot. I can’t say just because I don’t spoilers and all that. But, yeah, there is a big, big arc with her that’s coming up that Allen and I have talked about for a long time. And it’s something that when we started talking about it, and the direction that that was going to go, we were moving in a direction that was actually a little bit out of our comfort zone.
Just in terms of, like the emotional and, I guess, psychological depth there that’s kind of established. So it’s something that we’ve really been kind of mulling around for a while. And we, we want to get right and it is kind of a risk, but at this point, I feel like we know it enough now to where it’s not, or it’s an appropriate risk.
And I think people will be very, very, very happy with her arc and where that story goes and how she connects to the the other players in the, in the, in the universe.
Allen: Yeah, I, you know, and I think that. You know, now I’m thinking about it, Will. Her and Emily’s arc kind of mirror each other. Yeah, that’s what I was a
Will: little hesitant to say.
Yeah, no, that’s fine. Yeah,
Allen: and I, I think it’s really, it’s going to be good for the reader to kind of see how we blend those two together.
Will: Right. Yes, I agree with that. All
Doc Issues: of that. Okay. All right. All right. Now I have to bring this up because part of the reason why I got interested in this after Anthony introduced the whole POCUS HOCUS thing to me in the first place was the first, you know, the first issue and seeing the demon for the first time, and I’m like, Oh, this is incredible.
And. I know I’ve mentioned this in other ways too, especially with Grandma Chainsaw. I’m like, thank you guys for, for going down a path that I think I’m on, and then like it just takes its own turns and stuff. And at this point, the demon Like I, I just, I I just get this feel of like, wow, you oafish clumsy.
Just like haphazard . Yeah.
Will: That’s the great thing about that character is because the minute actually that we started talking about, well, I, I keep forgetting an interview ’cause I could say his name now. It’s like, yeah, let’s go. Yeah, that’s fine. We couldn’t talk. Yeah, that’s fine.
Hugo. We couldn’t talk about it. Yeah. And that’s one of the reasons why. I feel like, I feel like introducing that name, you know, finally, after it was this suspenseful buildup, sort of also opened up a completely new door to his character. Because up until that point, he is an enigma, and then you hear the name Hugo, and you’re like, okay, well, a character named Hugo Not, not necessarily a character named Hugo can’t be all that bad, but there’s, there’s, there’s a personality there that’s different than what I was, what I was thinking and,
In our minds, he was always that, but we knew that, you know, you can only reveal so much in a single issue and we had this, you know, storyline and structure for it and it just worked out really nicely and I, I think that it contributed to the element of surprise like you’re talking about.
The way that it subverts expectations as it goes along, although not not too much, you know, you want to stay faithful to the spirit of it. But that’s 1 thing. I think we pride ourselves on is that we want to do something. That’s just not boring that people can’t, you know, always predict or or isn’t a, always the the typical road to go down
Allen: Right.
Will: So
Allen: and so that was something too that we talked about. You know because they they do guess the demon’s name because that’s that’s the whole deal You know if he has to guess the demon’s name to get the soul back and you know before we actually named hugo, in the book itself, you know, he kind of had this like You when you put God, how do they word it?
I can’t you know when you actually put a name to something then you you fear it You don’t really fear. Yeah, that’s right. So, you know, like so we just called him. We just called him the demon and you know, it’s just evil character that we had Yeah, he was still kind of silly but it was like man He still kind of has Pocus by the balls, right?
But then as soon as we reveal his name and we find out that he didn’t even have the soul It was it. We, we wanted that weight drop. We wanted it to be like, so his name never mattered. And now he’s just 1 of them. That’s roped into it.
Will: Yeah. Yeah. I also think it works as well as it does because we’re seeing this unfold through Pocus’s perspective and.
He doesn’t really know other than it’s, you know, funny, of course, but he doesn’t really know that much about the demon either. I mean, aside from, you know, this pack that they had, and my take, you know, was always, and I think Allen would probably agree with this that when the demon does appear at his door at the end of the 1st issue.
It’s, it’s as much of a surprise to Pocus as it is to us. And Pocus has not really had anything to do with this guy. For many years, and he’s never particularly wanted to, you know, until this development which he then of course also sees as something of an opportunity to go and, and get his soul back.
He reaches the moral threshold of things he can’t do anymore.
Yeah,
Will: it’s a kind of pivot for a demon and then that’s when he’s like, okay, i’m done with all of it I’m gonna go stop this
Allen: Yeah, and to kind of pivot a little bit like going back to issue six. No one has seen it yet. There’s a demon that we introduce in issue six that Will should take all the credit for oh man on this one.
It’s It’s something else
Will: I I yeah, I I almost said a few minutes ago. I can’t really talk about my favorite thing in this issue because I feel like it even though it’s closer to being revealed now I still wanted to have the element of surprise but this issue unleashes a character that I have I have Really really been like holding back for a while It’s really exciting
Allen: It’s so stupid
Will: But it’s also very, very fun.
I, I think that people will be charmed by this character. As much as I was. And how
Allen: we made it fit into the story actually makes all the sense in the world too. Okay. It’s, I just, I can’t wait.
Doc Issues: See that’s, that’s what I love about this. I’m, and why I love talking to you guys, because if you’re excited, then we have to be excited.
Anthony: Yeah, because, because your excitement and your passion definitely absolutely comes through every, every word, every panel, every page.
Allen: Yeah, so yeah, guys, like Pocus, like Will and I said, it’s, it’s been a passion project. I mean, Grandma Chainsaw is definitely a passion project too, but this has just been our ongoing series and it’s, it’s something that we’re so proud of.
We always have amazing artists that want to be involved, that want to do covers for us. And we just, yeah, we’re just so happy with the, with the outcome of everything, you know?
Will: Yeah. I’m, I’m just pleasantly surprised by it with each passing day. Cause I said for years that I would never, ever, ever in a million years be able to write a series or a serial.
And the reason why I said that was because I’m much more of a character guy and the idea of a series where like, I’m thinking, and in my mind, of course, too, I was thinking of like, You know, episodes on television where it’s like every episode is its own different story or, or its own growing story. And I was like, they’re there in my mind.
I was like, there is no way I could sustain something like this. And then we started writing Pocus Hocus and it’s like one of, it just feels like one of the most effortless things I’ve ever worked on just in terms of how everything comes together and flows. So it’s been really it’s been awesome.
Anthony: It’s been fun coming along for the ride with y’all. I’ll tell you that. Thank you. So, so Horus, let’s talk about him for a little bit. Kind of going on you know, in addition to the, the mainline series. Oh
Will: yeah. He’s a fan favorite for sure.
Anthony: He absolutely is. I love that little pink bunny.
Allen: The script for Horus 3 is done and it’s already been served to Kit Wallis.
So that is that will be next.
Anthony: So that’s the, that’s the next Yeah. It
Allen: should be Horus3, yeah.
Doc Issues: I’m, sorry about the goofy grit on my face. You have no idea how happy that makes me.
Allen: Man, I share it with will whenever we get it the the craziest thing to me I I guess I I don’t shouldn’t say crazy.
I don’t know. Is we get a lot of messages after each campaign for Horus and it’s from like Parents, they’re like, hey, I read this with my kid and we love it and she’s
like, all right. Hell yeah, man Yeah
Will: You That’s cool. It’s one of the great things about this world is that it really lends itself to going out in so many different directions.
And different tones, I guess, because I think Horus and Hell, tonally, even though they’re both outrageous, dark comedies in ways, is different than Pocus Hocus. Horus is my, I’ve always told Allen that it reminds me, especially having Kit Wallis illustrating it in this very vibrant, incredible. Artwork that it kind of reminds me a little bit of like, like a Joan and Vasquez like Invader Zim almost sort of thing where it functions as a, cartoon kind of feel about it.
That’s really zany and unpredictable and fun. So that is a really fun series to write.
Allen: And we we cannot wait for for Horus three because we get to introduce another character I think that’s the things that we love doing more than anything. It’s just creating these new characters because yeah, you know in Horus one And Horus two you get to really meet Horus’s brother boris And figure out why we’re here and why?
Things are going down the way that they’re going down and then we get to meet another character In Horus 3 that I think people are genuinely gonna like.
Will: That’s, that’s been one of the great things about both of these series, I think, is that you, you, you know, you’d think that you’d get not tired, but you think you’d hit a wall at some point with developing new characters and bringing them in and incorporating them into a story.
And we haven’t, if anything, I think we’re doing that more now that we were probably even with the first few issues.
Allen: And I, I guess, you know, Anthony, I can kind of see the look on your face a little bit. Yes, there are plans to continue Horus after Horus and Hell. The idea was you know, not to give too much away, but the, the next iteration is Horus in Heaven.
Doc Issues: Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I was, I was thinking that. Since issue one about that idea so Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah,
Allen: so Yeah Horus in heaven because we we really want to play off the divine comedy. Is kind of what we were going for. So the next the next arc is going to be Horus in heaven There’s going to be events that happen at the end of issue four That propel Horus further and
Doc Issues: up, I guess we should say.
Okay. All right. Very,
Anthony: Very curious to see where that goes. What is the, what is the time frame on that? Is that going to be beginning of the beginning of 25?
Allen: Well, I mean, as soon as, as soon as issue four is done we’ll, we’ll immediately start working on it. No, I’m sorry.
Anthony: No, I, so I, I, I apologize then.
Horus three.
Allen: Oh Horus three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that will be I mean as soon as kit gets to it, you know Kit’s he’s a very busy man so as soon as he gets to it we’ll be we’ll be ready to go we we already have cover artists signed up people that want to work on it because people just Love that little bugger.
Doc Issues: All right. Very cool.
Anthony: Very cool. What’s going on? I know I ask you this all the time with Deacon Dan’s famous chili.
Allen: That is going to be after we’re going to start that after the This art of Pocus. So after issue 8, we’ll take a little bit of a breather to get everything ready for issue 9 through 12.
And then yeah, we’re gonna do Deacon Dan.
Will: Yeah, the story on that I think has evolved or the story in the Deacon Dan world has changed a little bit, but yeah for the better. I mean it’s it’s kind of whittled away all of the BS and kind of Yeah,
Allen: we trimmed the fat a lot on it. Yeah, yeah,
Will: we trimmed a lot of fat off of it and it focuses more on the things that I think people are going to be, to be interested in.
When I first had that idea, it was an idea for a really, really weird thing. And There’s no way around it. I mean, it’s it’s eternally weird no matter what angle you look at it from but now it’s like It’s more focused is what i’m trying to say. Yeah
Allen: Yeah, because we we kind of have like a it’s it’s what sweeney todd meets dexter.
Will: Yeah It’s
Allen: kind of what we’re looking like. Yeah
Will: that’s The best way I think you can describe it. Yeah,
Allen: and you know, we we originally had an idea for like this really long series for it, but You I think we kind of landed on maybe like either a one shot or just a two issue series with it. So that way it doesn’t overstay its welcome and everything because we want this thing to be so when shit hits the fan, we, we want it to hit the fan and don’t stop.
Right.
Doc Issues: Right. Okay. Cool. All right. And then what’s
Anthony: it Sunday morning. Oh, One
Allen: Sunday Afternoon.
Anthony: Yeah,
Allen: so One Sunday Afternoon is going to be mine and Will’s first graphic novel that we’re going to do and that will come after because Deacon Dan is going to be a little bit of a shorter thing, you know so that’s why we wanted to go and just do Deacon Dan because it’s going to be fun.
It’s exciting. But One Sunday Afternoon is going to be it’s going to be a true crime. One Of course with us it’s it’s going to be weird supernatural, but it’s going to be a detective story and it’s going to be a character study descent into madness all this kind of stuff and this one’s going to be a little bit more serious for us So we definitely want to take our time with it, but we think this thing’s going to be best told as a one shot so that’s why we Really want to get it right and just put out one graphic novel for it.
Okay Any time frame on that? I mean, yeah, just after Deacon Dan.
Anthony: Oh, after Deacon Dan. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Allen: We’ll be whittling away on that one.
Will: Well, yeah, I mean, I think too, since it’s a little out, not out of our, well, yeah, I guess out of our comfort zone or out of what we’ve been doing, you know, we want to make sure we give ourselves the appropriate time to like, really, as Allen said, you know, get it right.
All
right.
Doc Issues: All right. And
Anthony: then Allen, this is more for you. But what’s going on with the Herald?
Allen: Yeah, issue two is already done. Issue three has already been started. We’ll be doing a small campaign for the Herald launching right after Pocus hits.
Doc Issues: Oh, wow. Okay.
Allen: Yeah. Yeah. It’s already done.
Lettered, everything. Yeah. We just got the main cover back. So yeah, it’s ready to go.
Doc Issues: Damn. All right. Ooh.
Allen: Y’all aren’t playing. And shout out to Will, too. Got that novella going.
Will: And thank you for mentioning that.
Even though I’m still super, it’s, it’s so, don’t have the words. I don’t. I just don’t. Although Allen helped me. He did majorly, actually. Because I got stuck, kind of stuck near the end.
And, it needed a pick me up and he didn’t know anything about it. I texted him and I was like, Hey man, I know this is weird, but I’ve been working on a novella for two years and I’m going to describe to you this, this scenario that I’m working on, and it’s, it is completely out of its mind and bizarre, and I understand that that’s the point, but.
If you have anything to add to this, or, you know, and I explained it to him, and he gave me some really, really good feedback and looking back on that sequence in the draft. It’s entirely that conversation with him is what propelled it forward because I mean, I would probably still be. Picking away at it if it weren’t for that, but yeah, it’s it’s I’ve worked on it for 2 years and I have a draft and I’m hoping to.
And really starts trying to make it into something worthwhile to read it’s a 2100 words and, or excuse me, 21, 000 words and about 115 pages. So
Doc Issues: nice
Will: on. Okay.
Anthony: Well I know a couple of editors you know, that are also writers and such. So if you’re looking for names, let me know. I can, at the very least, shoot them over to you.
If and when you’re, you’re ready for that point and then you can kind of figure hash things out from there. Yeah, no,
Will: for sure. I mean, that, that’s thank you. I appreciate that. One of them
Anthony: is actually Erica Schultz. She’s a regular on the show. She’s a comic writer. I don’t know to what extent this might be, you know, if it’s, if it’s just a straight prose.
But I know, I mean, she’s, she’s a writer and an editor, so. Okay. Yeah. I’ll pass along the name.
Will: I definitely, I almost completely abandoned it and a friend of mine, well, Allen and another friend of mine helped me rescue it. So, you know, I have a draft done. I want to participate. I’m thinking about participating in NaNoWriMo in November, which would be an entirely different project.
That would actually be novel length, and it would be a vampire story. So I’m thinking about Maybe doing that, but I don’t know. That’s a huge commitment and I’ve already got all this. I’ve got work and then of course the stuff Allen and I are working on, so I don’t know fully if I’m going to invest in that yet, but it’s, it’s something I’m thinking about in which case this would probably take a backseat for a minute.
So we’re on that, but yeah, thank you for that. I’ll, I will keep that in mind for sure. Cause I’m going to need one of those, an editor definitely this time.
Anthony: Oh yeah. I know that you know, Doc and I have bandied around the idea of a graphic novel, and I’ve got a bunch of ideas floating, and it’s funny you mentioned NaNoWriMo I’ve actually been thinking about using that as kind of like a driving thing to, to do during NaNoWriMo is, is finally putting words to paper or Google Doc, as it were.
And, and starting to actually write it, write it down and flesh it out. And, you know, every time I talk to you, you guys. I always end up leaving the interview going, man, I really gotta start writing because , I, I talked to you and you
Allen: just, these idiots can do it. Anyone can do it.
Will: Well, yeah, keep in mind, it took me two years to, to work on this thing and it, it was not.
The process that it is with Allen and I, it was not effortless. It was not always fun. I don’t know, that’s not true. I had a lot of fun writing it or else I never would have finished it. But you know, it, it really helps having that, that sort of additional that other person to bounce ideas off of. Oh,
Allen: it’s crazy.
Like, Will, you described it before whenever you and I are writing together, it’s, it’s crazy. The energy in the room is so it’s great.
Will: Yeah, it’s it doesn’t feel like writing is the thing, which is what we so great about it, you know, because oftentimes when you write, you sit in a dark room.
You’re, completely quiet, these sort of sessions that we do, there’s like a whole world that just comes to life and all all you do is sort of transcribe that onto the page, so it’s really. It’s a great thing, finding a writing partner is rare because usually writers, even if they’re both writers have completely different views on things.
And, you know, it doesn’t match, but this one has, you know, so,
Anthony: well, that’s, that’s awesome. And doc and I have, chatted about our respective thoughts and ideas on the story and it’s something, we kind of come up with together.
So it’s not just, you know, one or the other. It’s it’s collective and it’s very much in the capes in the couch. That space. So we’re, looking forward to. Putting that together at some point and, and presenting that in a format that the world can go, Oh, okay. You know, this is, this is something that y’all have been working on and yeah.
Taken taken and made physical and made real.
Will: Yeah. I think you guys should. And I mean, when you. If you do get together and work on it you know, let us know. We will promote the hell out of it and Oh,
Allen: yeah, always.
Will: Yeah. I would love to, to, to look and see what you guys come up with. I had a friend 1 time who told me that when it comes to creativity and those who are perceived as good versus those who are not.
So much of it boils down to taste that if you have a sense, so the idea is taste, you already have the skillset that can then be, either improved or developed or whatever you want to call it. And I know just from talking to you guys that you would be, you would do a kick ass project for sure.
Doc Issues: Well, thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much.
Will: Yeah, absolutely.
Doc Issues: Yeah. I think the, the few times that. I’ll be blunt. I don’t ever really talk about it outside of this space. And yet at work, I’m not even joking about this. There were a couple of times I had to respond to some things like clinically and stuff.
And I got a cold, like, just just a random contact at work, not in the comic space or anything, just said, like, why are you not a writer? I’m like, Oh, no, I’m like, you guys don’t know about the background. Please. I have eternal guilt about this.
Will: Yeah. Manifest in real life situation. Yeah. It’s becoming external guilt through other, through other people.
Yeah.
Anthony: So so wrapping this up then obviously we’re going to have links to to the Kickstarter. Speaking of the Kickstarter, what are some of the fun aside from the old, typical, catch up. On all the the prior stuff. What are some of the other incentives, that you’ve got going on?
Allen: Yeah, the so the big thing, you know, of course, we’re we’ve been trying to simplify everything just get back to basics so right now from where we took a year and a half off from doing a Pocus campaign We we just wanted to really focus on the hey Anyone can jump back in all this stuff, but the most important tier to us And it’s kind of crazy whenever I actually like look at it So we have a tier on here called the PocusVerse And we’re actually I think that’s kind of like it put everything into perspective Because we’re like starting to create a world now, you know So we we have it’s a tier with pocus one through six And it also Horus one and two.
It’s I don’t know. It’s just kind of crazy
Will: I think there’s probably an argument to be made that to say that everything we’ve worked on up until this point Probably takes place in the PocusVerse.
Yeah
Will: to some degree even grandma chainsaw. I mean, yeah Far it’s removed from all that but it’s I don’t know PocusVerse is kind of where it all started.
Doc Issues: Yeah
Anthony: well, that’s that’s that’s really cool to to look at it that way as I said, i’m a Day one backer I went with all the covers. And then I think I, there was one add on. I don’t remember.
Allen: Yep. You got the limited hollow foil.
Anthony: Yes. That’s it.
Will: Well, somebody’s memory is not going well with age.
So I don’t know what your secret is, but I will.
Allen: Maybe I’m born with it, or maybe it’s just Maybelline.
Anthony: Okay. Boom, boom. I
Will: will, I will accept that answer. Okay.
Anthony: It goes until Saturday, November 9th at 1030 Eastern in the morning. So this episode. We’ll come out before then.
Depending on how the editing goes. But at the very least it will drop, with enough time before the the campaign ends. So, gentlemen, pleasure is always chatting with you.
Where can folks find y’all on the internet?
Allen: Yeah, you can just find me on Twitter at chapsoffury. And of course, follow us on our sub stack. It’s thetophatstudios. substack. com
Anthony: And then anything else individually that you want to promote or promote? Will, where can, where
Allen: can everyone find you first? Oh, yeah,
Will: no, I was just going to say, I don’t have Instagram willrad82 is my Instagram.
So that’s where I’m at currently. Also, if you’d like to check out, excuse me, any of my film or video work, that’s on vimeo. com slash willrad.
Allen: But yeah, just as far as other projects are concerned, I mean, we were always going to be up to something and just just stay tuned. Cause I think 2025 is going to be good.
Like, you know, I thought 2024 was, was going to be great, but I think 2025 is also going to be a lot of fun, man.
Anthony: Can’t wait. Can’t wait. And I think 2025 is going to be a good year for capes as well. So as always you can find all of our episodes, including all the Myriad times that we’ve spoken with Allen and or will on, on our website, capes on the couch. com. They literally have their own subsection category of the creators on the couch specifically devoted to Allen and will episodes. You can find us on social media, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Tik TOK, and threads at capes on the couch. And a special shout out to all of our new followers who found us and are following us.
After our our successful panel at DerpyCon where we talked about Discord from My Little Pony. That episode will be hitting your feeds relatively soon. We’ve got some other creator stuff lined up the colleagues on the couch as well. We’re going to be kicking that off very, very soon.
I’m finishing the one episode and then we’ve got a couple others that we’re, we’re working on coordinating and trying to schedule with with some of the colleagues. You can shoot us an email at capesonthecouch at gmail. com and if you really like what you hear, You can subscribe to our Patreon, patreon.
com slash capes on the couch, where you can unlock early access, additional stuff, uncensored material, and so much more. So thank you again, Allen and Will, as always, a pleasure chatting with you gents. Doc, anything you want to add before we, we head out? Oh, just
Doc Issues: always a pleasure, you know, I don’t have anything super witty to say because these two gentlemen really bring it with you know, Everything that they do.
Will: Well, thank you. Thank you guys. I I think I speak for Allen also when I say we love talking to you And you know, it’s it’s it’s our pleasure to to do that. So thank you.
Anthony: Yep. 100 Yep, whenever I see something going on, as soon as I saw that I was like up new kickstarter You All right, let me text Allen, find out when we can get these guys on.
So, thank you gents, for Allen Dunford and Will Radford, and for my co host Doc Issues, I’m Anthony Sytko, thank you so much for listening, we’ll see you next time.