Capes on the Couch Transcripts Creators on the Couch – The Dog Knight Transcript

Creators on the Couch – The Dog Knight Transcript

Creators on the Couch – The Dog Knight

Anthony: [00:00:00] hello and welcome to Capes on the Couch where comics Get Counseling. I’m Anthony Sytko and that’s where you would hear Doc, but unfortunately he is not available this evening. This is a Creators on the Couch episode, and we are pleased as punched to be bringing on the writer and artist for the upcoming Ogn slash Ya story. The Dog Knight. Welcome back to the show, Jeremy Whitley. Jeremy, thanks for joining us once again.

Jeremy Whitley: It’s my pleasure.

Anthony: And for the first time on the show, we’ve got the, the artist for the book Bre Indigo. Bre, thank you so much for taking the time to meet with us.

Bre Indigo: Totally. My pleasure. Thanks for having us.

Anthony: Yeah. So before we get started and talk about this fantastic book Jeremy, this is your third appearance on the show. We had you on to talk about Unstoppable Wasp Nadia Van Dyne. You were actually the very first creator that we ever had on the show, and then I spoke to you again at New York Comic-Con.

But it’s been a hot minute since we talked to you, so how have you been?

Jeremy Whitley: Good. Yeah, that [00:01:00] punch card has been gathering dust in my wallet. You know, I haven’t, haven’t quite got the, the three punches yet, but yeah, we’ve been I’ve been good. Not doing a bunch of conventions as most everybody hasn’t been, but that certainly has not stopped me from continuing to write.

In fact it’s, it’s facilitated my tunnel vision of writing even more.

Anthony: Awesome. Awesome. So, towards the end of the show, we’ll find out in addition to the Dog Knight what you’ve been working on we did speak to your fellow pony scribe Ted Anderson a while back. We talked to him about his book.

So we’ll certainly ask what, what else you’ve been up to and Bre, so aside from this why don’t you go ahead and tell our listeners some of the books that you’ve worked on prior to this and anything that well, I guess we’ll save the stuff you’ve got coming up for, for later, but what are some of the books that you’ve worked on before this?

Bre Indigo: Okay.

So I, I have one book out right now, which is Meg, Joe, Beth, and Amy was written by, and it was a modern retelling of little women. It came out in like two [00:02:00] 19, I think. And before that I was doing web comic essentially just trying to monetize that, to do it as much as I can. And my current ongoing web comic is Jamie, And it’s like for free for people to read on taps and web tune.

And for the most part, those been in my two. Like, well, not those have been my two, but that has been my main focus on top of stuff. And I have only couple other, I’ll just leave it, I guess. That’s about all I’ve been


Anthony: Alright, that’s fine. Listen, you don’t have to, go crazy. Certainly this was a very involved book.

I, I believe it’s like 200 pages 200 plus pages. So this is not your standard, 20 something page issue of the book or even I was

Bre Indigo: working on, I was working on it. And the other book that’s coming out in the, like around the same time, north Ranger with Rachel, I was working on them at the same time as well as Jamie.

I don’t know if I did it. I think I went into a fugue state. [00:03:00]

Anthony: Well, you know, if Doc were here, I’m sure he would have something to say about that. But I, you know, just speaking as a, as a non-professional, but someone who’s done the show for five years and has at least passing knowledge and osmosis of these things, that doesn’t sound too healthy.

I hope you were able to get some sleep.

Bre Indigo: Trust me, I definitely prioritize mental health and self-care during the same


Anthony: Excellent, excellent. Love to hear it. That’s what we’re here for, so we definitely appreciate that. So let’s just dive right into the Dog Knight. I guess we’ll start Jeremy, as, as the writer here we’ll start with you, the impetus for the story.

I ask this of every creator that I bring on. Where did this idea come from and how long have you been picking this around internally?

Jeremy Whitley: Well, this one is a strange one. Cause I feel like the majority of my, my graphic novels, my comics, stuff like that is, is like kicking around in my head for some amount of time beforehand.

And then, like, I write [00:04:00] stuff and it sits on my computer for a while and then if I’m lucky, it finds a home and you know, I have to re-edit it, write more stuff and, and come back around to it. And this was like, I had the really base idea of the Dog Knight of this like, character who was I, I think the, the way I pitched it initially to my agent was like, if dog is man’s best friend, the Dog Knight is dog’s best friend, right?

Like they, their job is to help dogs communicate with, with the human world and interact in the way that dogs can’t. But also they can, talk to dogs and they can see what dogs see. You know, there’s all these sort of hidden things that dogs can see. And that was like, The really baseline idea I had.

And of course I had like this idea of it being a coming of age story in there where, you’ve got a character who’s, , I think in this case, knows who they are, but is still trying to figure out sort of where they fit into the rest of the world. And I had next to [00:05:00] nothing on this.

I had, you know, that and some, some basically like the ideas of the characters of the Pawtheon and then of Frankie. And I sort of like threw that to my agent and she was like, oh, I think I know the perfect place for this. And the next thing I knew we were, signing paperwork with, with Fywell and friends.

They, you know, just glommed onto the idea immediately. they loved it, they loved books about dogs in general, but sort of the, all of the bits and pieces of it . They just got immediately and it was a, a strange experience of like, Usually by the time it gets to pitching, I have outlined a thing to death and I’m already tired of it by the time that like, other people see it.

So this was like, I was still very much in that like, figuring things out phase and it was sold and I was like, oh wow. I guess we should figure out like who’s drawing this And where we’re going with the story. And five One Friends was really, they were really excited about it and they wanted to sort of figure out the [00:06:00] art style themselves.

And I was like, look, you know, you can bring me people that you like, the thing I want is I wanna make sure that, you know, we have somebody on the story that has a good style for the story. And I do want an artist who is, is non-binary, who I don’t have to explain the, basic underlying concepts in this story too, when we come into it and can give me like, Feedback that can make this a better book.

That like will be something that people who, who need it is, is helpful to them. And they were like, they were really into that. They immediately like, brought me back, I think five different artists and I saw Bre Art and I was like, that’s it, that’s the one right there. That’s our art style. This is what everything should look like in this book.

And luckily they were available and we kind of jumped into it and that was like, oh, it was a time that nothing big really was happening like around 2019, early 2020. Yeah.

Bre Indigo: It [00:07:00] was like, like we were talking about it a little sooner than that. And then like once we signed it was just like, oh, like, I literally remember the day I was just like, I’m about to start on the pencils.

And it was like covid. I was like, guess

like all day.

Anthony: Well, on the bright side then it. Meant that you had more time to stay inside and get work done,

Bre Indigo: and absolutely every excuse in the world to not

Anthony: interact with people. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, we all should be masters at bread making and crafting. And I mean, you think back to the early days of the pandemic, there were phases to it.

Especially the early stages, like that was like Tiger King era Oh my God. When people were still like, we’ll be back to normal. Four to six weeks, but in the meantime, holiday. Exactly. And then three years later and we’re still dealing with this stuff.


Jeremy Whitley: That was an interesting thing for me because I think not being able to like go to conventions, cause that’s a big [00:08:00] part of like what my usual work is. It’s going to conventions and hand selling books and talking to editors and stuff at those. And like all of my work for hire work suddenly just got slowed down.

Mm-hmm. And the conventions went away and I was like, alright. I have this, these other books I’ve sold, I have these other things I wanna work on. I’m just gonna do a dead sprint until things come back. And that was a great idea for like six months. Yep. And then there was just a point at six months where it was like, I’ve written like 1500 pages of comics in the last six months.

I just need to chill,

Bre Indigo: take a nap. My, yeah.

Anthony: You envision that, okay, I’m gonna sprint because this is, you envision, you’re probably only gonna be running a mm-hmm. You know, I’ll put this in athletic terms, like you’re pacing yourself for for a 800 meter or 1600 meter race. Turns out Nope. You’re running a whole marathon.

So now you’ve [00:09:00] gased out early on cuz you’re like, oh, I’m gonna run at this pace cuz this is where. The finish line is, and they just keep moving it out, moving it back, and then you’re

just, and then you hit that burnout, and then you spend the rest of what you consider a limited time, like burnout, and then you’re just like, no, I’m, I’m, I’m wasting all this time.

I should be productive while I can. No.

Yep. That feeling is absolutely real. Absolutely real. I

Bre Indigo: think it’s pretty universal for creatives, for most people in general.

Anthony: Yeah. So, but one, one other question that I had for Jeremy before we get into sort of the other parts of the story, is this is being released through McMillan Children’s.

I know it’s, it’s Bible and Friends, they’re, they’re an imprint, but this is being sold. Like a book. And I’m not trying to use it in like a pejorative sense or whatever, but most of the times when, when we bring on creators and they’re telling us about their stories, it’s being done through a [00:10:00] comic publisher.

This is not being done through a comic publisher. How did this end up happening and was there any sort of changes that you had to make or other adjustments to be made to go through a, a larger scale book publisher versus a comic studio?

Jeremy Whitley: It was an interesting one to me cuz this, and one or two other books that I have that I’m working on, I think haven’t really been announced yet.

Were like sort of signed pretty close together and they I was able to sign ’em with a book publisher because my agent Mora Was really instrumental in that. You know, it had been a thing that I’d wanted to do for a long time. Comics as a direct market world doesn’t know what to do with a lot of, like all ages stuff as, as testified by the fact that they refer to it as all ages, which is not like a real thing.

Which is, is I think the hardest part [00:11:00] of, of working in this publishing landscape of like real book publishers because comics are like, oh, there’s mature and then there’s teen and then there’s all ages. And teen just means there’s like not nudity or excessive bloodshed. And then anything that like doesn’t have, anything that, that they’re hesitant to na label anything as all ages because they think that means that people won’t take it seriously and they won’t buy it every month.

Anthony: Yeah. It’s like a g rating for a movie. It’s like, oh, I’m not gonna bother gonna see it because it’s, you know, it’s rated G. Yeah. Oh,

Bre Indigo: even, even like the Tigger movie was PG.,

Jeremy Whitley: I, I remember very specifically like coming off of the first volume of Princes. Like, princes got nominated for two Eisners that won a bunch of awards.

And I was so excited about it and every editor I talked to, Big comics, publishers was like, yeah, but we don’t know what we would do with you. We [00:12:00] don’t make all ages stuff, so, what would you even do? And it’s like, I can write other stuff too, or, you know, you can publish all ages things.

But I think, you know, it’s, it’s interestingly, this was in an age that was a couple years ahead of Ms. Marvel and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur and, and things like that, that have since sort of proved out to be something that can sell and make money and, and be of interest to them. But even now they’re, scared of the idea of things being for different ages.

And I think with, with book publishers, they have these like, set groups of like beginning readers, middle grades, and ya, and they have a very concrete idea of what goes in each thing. And if there’s too much of this sort of serious content, then it needs to be a ya thing.

If there’s no like safety net for the character, then that’s more of a ya thing. They have very like concrete ideas of, of [00:13:00] where these things go. Which was, is sort of a learning experience as you get into working with this stuff whereas’s like, Marvel if, if it’s not for adults, it’s all ages and that has a very loose like, idea of what even goes there.

Anthony: Yeah, definitely. And, and I find it kind of interesting and ironic that the whole point of the story is that it’s a character who very much does not fit into boxes, and yet the meta of the story is that the publisher and that the creative types and the folks overseeing all these things are trying to fit it into this, these categories and these boxes, when again, as evidenced by the story and the character, not everything fits neatly into a box.

I find that kind of fascinating. So you, you indicated Jeremy you had asked for for [00:14:00] non-binary artists and, creators Bre. So bringing you in now , were you given any indication that oh, hey, this is a book that I want to kind of audition for?

Or was it a situation where they had your artwork already and they just said, we know them, they’ve got this portfolio. How did it. Come about from your perspective?

Bre Indigo: It feels like a million years ago, but from what I remember, I, I’m pretty sure that like my agent Brent Taylor just brought it to me and said, Hey, they’re interested in you.

Are you interested in this? I don’t believe I had to take a serious audition, but they still wanted to kind of see how I would handle it. Right? So before anything was signed, I still did have to prove that. Like I had an idea and they could agree with what I was visualizing on, from the beginning.

And I think there was only just like minor, minor corrections and stuff, but they, they kind of dug what I was doing. Unless you remember it differently? I think

more than anything, all my memory.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah. I think more than anything they just wanted to like, make sure you could [00:15:00] draw dogs, because that’s not something that pops up in every comic.

And it’s like, there’s gonna be a lot of drawing dogs. So like, well I

Bre Indigo: fooled you all because I had never drawn a dog before a day in my life. I just was like, alright, but you got a stylized dog now. And I just was like, let’s make it happen. So I was actively developing a style as I moved. I mean,

Jeremy Whitley: and now you’ve drawn so many dogs.

Bre Indigo: I’ve so many dogs

Anthony: and each of them are very distinct. And, and again, we’ll get into the Pawtheon in, in a little bit. And I, I definitely, did appreciate the characterization here. . So the next big question, I guess, or discussion that I wanna have is the importance of representation. Obviously is huge right now, and I love, love, love. That we are hearing stories from and about people who are not just cisgendered, hetero, white Christian, [00:16:00] Judeo-Christian males. Love that story.

Or love that the, the focus is being spread beyond that. So Jeremy, what were some of the things I guess, that made you want to tell this story and, and open up the representation?

Jeremy Whitley: I mean, that’s, that’s always been a big thing for me.

My first real like published stuff is, is Princeless, which is very specifically written with like, the idea of my daughters reading it, of them having, a princess who is a warrior who is somebody that looks like them, that they can, see out there in the world.

And I, I think like by and large, I feel like I could write characters who are not white guys all day, every day and never get anywhere close to, like, balancing out the scales at this point.

Bre Indigo: You could do exclusively non that and you still never catch up.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah. I want to [00:17:00] write something that like, is, is different than what’s out there already that like will mean something to, to somebody that, has some sort of representation. And I mean, I, I think that’s spread from Princeless to, you know, I, I sort of spun off into Raven the Pirate Princess cause I, wanted to do something more with representations of, of different sexualities and genders and stuff like that. And then I, I think Dog Knight, wanting to have a character who is non-binary, who’s somebody who’s dealing with questions of, of gender in, in themselves and just sort of, It ends up going through the whole comic that you see sort of different people who, who express these things differently I think is incredibly important at this moment.

I can’t imagine that at the time that I was initially writing this, that that was like as on my mind like as on everybody’s mind as it is right now with, the number of, of Bills affecting, trans people and, [00:18:00] and specifically aimed at trans people and drag performers and anybody who’s not sort of presenting their gender and sexuality in the way that a, a small group of very enthusiastic people feel is the correct way.

That right now is, is extremely important to me. Cause I see my kids and their friends and my friends, dealing with these things at, at different points and different times in their lives. And just the, outpouring of, of hate and anger around this right now is just, it’s so so bad.

It’s so unfortunate. And I, I think so much of it is, is aimed by people who don’t understand any of it. Like they don’t understand who the people are that they’re aiming these things at. They don’t know people like this or they, they don’t see these kind of stories and they don’t read these kind of stories.

And they don’t consider that the, the people that they think are [00:19:00] on the other sides of these laws are actually like real people and, some of the people who can be heroes in their own right. So, it was important to me to have a hero who was, a person who was dealing with these sort of questions of, of gender and stuff like that.

And in Frankie’s case, like not. Necessarily a question at this point that like, it’s, it’s settled for Frankie. Like Frankie knows who they are and that was important to me is that it not be just a necessarily a coming out story. That it’d be a story about a character who is out, but is, you know, still sort of trying to figure out where they belong and all of this all of this,

Bre Indigo: yeah, just the next steps.

Jeremy Whitley: Cause it’s like, coming out is not the biggest deal and some people are very welcomed when they come out, but they still have a lot to face. Cause society still is the way it’s, you know, you can be loved at home and then step out that door and take so much that you’re not prepared for.

Anthony: [00:20:00] Exactly. And, and for so, People coming out is not just a one time thing.

It’s a constant recurring thing. I don’t want to necessarily analogize it to a, a wound that won’t heal, because I, I don’t want to again, make the analogy that it’s a bad thing, but it just in the sense that it’s something that has to keep getting impacted over and over and over again.

And it’s never a situation where it can just be, and then the individual gets to move on and deal with the rest of their life that they’re constantly having to address first and foremost. Whether they’re, there’s always non-binary, gender fluid, trans, whatever the case may be, it always has to be brought up and it’s, it’s this constant process.

One last question. I, I had sort of spinning off of that before I get into the next one is, was Frankie always originally designed as non-binary? Or was it like, did you [00:21:00] know that you wanted to write a story about someone who just wasn’t necessarily cisgender, hetero, and over the course of kicking around ideas, it, it turned into non-binary or I just, I’m curious about, I guess the, the process or was it like, I’m, you’re starting from, from the first thing you know, okay, this, you know, this lead character’s gonna be non-binary and then everything builds off of that.

Jeremy Whitley: I, I’m pretty sure that from, from the very beginning in, in talking about the main character in this story That they were look at, looking back at my notes, they were always gonna be non-binary. I think for a while it was a question of whether their name was Frankie or Charlie. And there are a lot of, I feel like there are a lot of Charlie’s in media right now, a lot of non-binary and female characters named Charlie.

And I was like, you know what? I’m, I’m going the other way. If, there’s a bunch of Charlie’s able to go this way. And so, yeah, from the outset that was a thing. And I’ve wanted it to be a question that like, there were characters in the [00:22:00] story that had issues or questions with this, but with the dogs, it was never gonna be an issue that the dogs, you know, the dogs are cool, like dogs take you as your word.

You are what you say you are. You know, they don’t have a problem with it

Anthony: because dogs love unconditionally. There is not a question about that. So, This next one goes to both of you. And I’ll preface this by saying that just generally speaking from a high level perspective about our show is we, we focus on the mental health and we really do our level best to not delve too much into the weeds on political or sociological topics, insofar as we want the show to be timeless.

And so we don’t wanna necessarily talk about whatever is happening in the world right now. But we’re also obviously cognizant that that’s not always the case and that you have to address the fact that art is created as a product of the world[00:23:00] during the time in which it’s created. And so I, I put the question to both of you.

Is making a book like this at a time that we’re in now you, where you essentially know that it’s going to be. Challenged, banned. There’s going to be pushback to some degree on just from jump. As soon as people hear about the, the basic elevator pitch plot line of the book, they hear, you know, non-binary.

It’s character of color, like right off the bat, boom. There’s gonna be pushback on that. How does that impact your artistic process knowing that you’re going into this with, with that kind of pushback on, on a story? I’ll start with Bre on this from, from an artistic standpoint, going back to the representation, but, but starting with you on this one.

Bre Indigo: Well, might be naive of me, but [00:24:00] honestly I’m done trying to justify my humanity and people.

Are not what people want them to be as humanity, like, I’m done. I don’t really care what they think. Like this book exists for the people who it’s gonna help. And if it’s banned, then that’s just going to bring more attention to it. So ban it. Like, I mean, I don’t know what to tell you. I just want it to be in the hands of the people that it’s gonna help.

Anthony: No, and, and I, you know, I also just wanna make it perfectly clear. I agree with

both of the

Bre Indigo: Oh, I know you agree. I know you’re just asking a question.

Anthony: I, I just wanted to make it crystal clear that I’m in no way shape or form condoning or defending those jack asses, especially if they had jackass down in Florida that wanna ruin things for everybody else.

So Jeremy, to you then as, as the writer again, you know, when you created this, there wasn’t as much of a focus. As a country and, and in the media as there is now, but there was still obviously going to be some, some kind of a pushback. And did that impact [00:25:00] your, your writing process or any part of the story at all?

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, I mean, I, I know there’s gonna be some pushback and as much as it worries me that that is the thing, just as a, as a person in the world like it, it worries me that people are, are coming in with these sort of perceptions. As a author who is, you know, theoretically going to be like at tables talking about this, things like that.

I welcome that. Like I want them to bring it to me because I will be so happy to shoot them down. And I think this particular book is so, Wholesome like that this character is so, like, good and themself that like there are no alternative motives to Frankie or to any of these characters that like, that it is a story that [00:26:00] could have a straight white protagonist, but it doesn’t.

And that is something that like, when they look at it, they can’t possibly say that like, oh, it’s trying to influence our kids to do this or do that. It’s like, no. It’s like, it’s a story about this character going on, this somewhat fantastical adventure with these magical dogs.

Like, object to it. Let’s hear it. Read the book and tell me what’s like, what’s nefarious and evil about it, because it’s the hardest thing to object to if you actually like read it and consider the humanity of, characters and, and people both in real life and in the story because it’s like, it can’t possibly do anything negative in the world, but it can do some good and like that’s yeah, like challenge it.

Show me like just put your bigotry on stage because like [00:27:00] you can’t possibly object to this on a, like, moral basis and not say something horrible.

Bre Indigo: I mean, they can, they will, because in the end it’s not, it’s not really about even being proven wrong. And I think that’s where our, our point of views might differ is that I have had enough experience to just see, well, not like that.

We all haven’t had our experiences regarding like, Race, gender, and and sexuality and all that stuff. It’s like at some point they, people who are against us, people who are bigoted against these identities, they just try to intellectualize their hatred. And then once they get to a point where they’ve, their bluff has been called and they’re being challenged, it just turn, it just shows what it is.

It’s just bigotry. Right. So that’s why I say like, I don’t care about what they have to say. I care enough to like, protect myself. But when it comes to like, putting it out there, if I’m gonna be given a platform, which a lot of the times I don’t even know if I got it because I’m like trying to fill a quota out.

If someone’s trying to fill a quota with me, or if [00:28:00] they really want my art, my writing or my representation or whatever it is I’m gonna take the platform and I’m gonna do what I can with it. And it, that’s what I say. I am nervous. Right. Like getting negative attention because I don’t want, I mean, I don’t know how big it might possibly get.

I want it to be in everyone’s hands, you know, as much as it can be. But I don’t want people like threatening my life over something so stupid. Especially like you said, it’s wholesome. But when, when Meg and Jo released, I remember when I was working on that just really quick, Lori, I mean, spoiler alert, but has been out for a while and also it’s a retelling, but Lori kisses Joe without her consent and no one said anything about that.

But the, the simple fact that Joe was like, I’m a lesbian. I like any negative things that people have said about it has just been about that. Like it’s not appropriate. And I’m like, all she said was, she likes Rose. There wasn’t even a love interest for Joe. [00:29:00] You know? So yeah, they’re just gonna onto anything because in the end it’s against their core values.

That’s all that matters. So.

Jeremy Whitley: I think we’re very much on the same page there where it’s like, anything they can say about this book is much more likely to make them look like a stupid bigot than it is to get anybody on their side. Because it’s like, oh, but it’s a book about magical dogs.

Come on. Like, calm down. And I think for my part, I would rather people come at me than come at you because I, I think there’s something, there’s something innately hilarious about them complaining to me about representation. Being the, large dopey white guy that I am, and I’m, it’s just like, it’s fine.

Like you, who are you arguing with, right? I, I am from the constituency that you say you represent, and I don’t believe this. So, you know, what, what are you gonna do? [00:30:00]

Bre Indigo: I am curious to see what kind of, what kind of comments you get, but at the same time, I don’t wish that on anyone.

Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I concur there.

So another thing that I wanted to talk about, and this is something that, that I picked up when I was reading it and, and maybe it’s because I’m, I’m a dad and I’ve got, two young kids and I’m trying to teach them the boundaries in this book, I really appreciate that boundaries are respected both physically and emotionally.

Mm-hmm. And when I was just reading through throughout the entire story, it just, it seemed so organic within it that, again, from, from a physical and an emotional perspective, aside from the cases of like bullying, you know, when that’s presented obviously as a, you know, sort of a cautionary aspect of it, but by [00:31:00] and large you know, for, for Frankie particularly, their boundaries physically and emotionally are very well respected to the point that it’s almost, there’s not even like a question there.

And I just wanted to say from my perspective, how much I appreciated that. Because as I said, I’ve been teaching, my kids, my, my older son is almost four. The baby, she’s too young to understand any of that yet. But he understands, about being asked if you want hugs being asked, what are you feeling right now?

And I just have to say again, this isn’t so much a question, but. I just really, really appreciated how clearly that was delineated throughout the story. So kudos to, to Jeremy for writing it and Bre to, for, for drawing it. That these are the stories that are being put out in the world now where people’s boundaries are, are [00:32:00] understood, they’re clearly stated and they’re understood and people go, okay, you know mm-hmm.

Between Frankie and Dallas I wanna hug you, but I don’t know yet if we’re there and da, da da. There’s the inter meshing of the physical and the emotional boundaries and it’s, it’s all kind of clearly delineated. And like I said, I just, as I was reading this, I’m going, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Like, I was making notes there, while I was reading this, so credit,

Bre Indigo: credit, the, when I, when I read it first time too, I just like, look at that, boundaries. Let’s go.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah. I think that’s, that’s something that. Developed some extent, like as we were doing it. Cause I, I feel like it’s an interesting thing and I, I think some of this is a testament to our editor is that like, I think I had a really clear vision of who Frankie was going in and I had a less clear vision of who Dallas was.

And Dallas is a character that sort of grew throughout the story and, and literally, you know, grows [00:33:00] within the story that I, I think Dallas is important to me in a way that like, I think there’s so many stories both in the news and in, you know, in stories where like somebody is an unrepentant jerk and they like either are forgiven with no good reason, no time spent or they’re written off.

And Dallas is an example of a character who like, Is willing to put in the work to be friends with this person that like they were bad to like. Mm-hmm. You know, that her reasons for being the way she is are complicated and have a lot to do with as so many, you know, kids do it and in middle school, like their reasons have a lot to do with things they’ve been told either in their, but by their family, by their church, by various other people.

And they, you know, she has decided to grow as a person and decided that like Frankie is important to her.

Bre Indigo: The intention that’s like so [00:34:00] important is the fact that like, Frankie got to witness that intention instead of Dallas being like, Hey, I wanna be a friend again. And then Frankie’s saying, eh, and then Dallas being like, oh, okay, well then I see how you are.

And you know, that’s what I’m so used to seeing in kids dramas and teen dramas. And it was just refreshing to see, you know, two people who adults might not see as mature, like having mature conversations because, this is something that should be normalized, is like adults should perform boundaries and communication skills for children to learn from and, and should be something that we implement a lot more.

Anthony: Yeah, yeah, definitely. My sister is a parenting coach, and I see this all the time with, you know, my, my niece and nephew. And you know, it’s like a perfect example. I was just talking about this with my sister earlier. I took my niece to a, to a hockey game this weekend. She, she’d never been.

And so we went and we had a great time and at the end of it, you know, I was saying goodbyes to her and stuff, and she, she’s [00:35:00] seven, she adores me. I’m her only uncle. Mm-hmm. And she, she’s this awesome sweet kid. I can count on one hand with fingers left over the amount of times in her life that she has hugged me because that’s not who she is. But, so, you know, in the, at the back of my mind, I’m finishing up, I’m saying goodbyes with the game and stuff like that, and I was like, Hey, I had a really great time today. You know, I loved hanging out with you. You know, I wanna do this again and da da da da. Can I give you a hug or a high five?

And she, she kind of just, she put the hand up and we did like a high five and a pound. And I was like, all right, cool. Because there I knew, even though I know she loves me and I would do anything for her, I’m not going to say, therefore I deserve a hug because I’m the cool uncle, you know? And so, and kudos to my sister for teaching my, you know, teaching her kids about that.

Now my nephew will hug because he’s just a very physically affectionate kid. Mm-hmm. So it’s, it’s interesting to see [00:36:00] that dynamic. But to, to your point, Bre, is, is that was modeled by my sister, you know, that she was very clear because when we were growing up, and as I’m sure so many people are that oh, give, give, you know, aunt so-and-so a hug, you know, give your grandfather a kiss and stuff like that.

And all these affections were forced on children. And so then there’s, there’s that removal of the emotional and the physical boundaries because then you’re teaching kids that their bodies are not their own. Mm-hmm. And that I, I don’t want to give uncle so-and-so a hug and a kiss goodbye, but I have to because my mom is going to yell at me or whatever like that.

And then, you know, sad to say that’s how kids end up getting abused, you know, or taken advantage of. Mm-hmm. Cause they, they feel that their bodies are not their own and oh, well, that’s a darker topic and I don’t,

Bre Indigo: you’re you’re totally right. It starts [00:37:00] to stack and it just becomes issues down the line because children, some are truly like gifted when it comes to like, how they process things.

But not everyone understands that like, oh, okay, I have to hug at this party. But that doesn’t mean that if someone in the future puts you in a similar situation, you have to let them do whatever they want. And sometimes people will grow like even worse about physical touch because they never had a chance to process it.

And now there’s not even an opportunity for that to be a part of their life with their own, like, right. Like me and my wife are incredibly different. Like I’m a very affectionate person and she’s very touch-averse, and that’s something I even had to learn to communicate. Cause I wasn’t taught about boundaries like that.

I just developed boundaries at like 29 and I had to go to therapy to learn to do it, you know, so,


Anthony: But, but it’s interesting to see, oh, I’m sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead Jeremy.

Jeremy Whitley: I mean, and I think, going to your point of parenting and, and reinforcing that, I think reading the book, I it should be obvious to some extent that, [00:38:00] that Frankie has figured some of this stuff out.

Cause Frankie has a dope ass mom. Like, exactly. Diane is Diane, I think as I was writing here, that was like, Diane’s great. Like Diane really just nails it is there for Frankie every step of the way is like willing to go along with things, even if like, she doesn’t really understand the reason for it, she is, is there to support her kid.

And that was, I, I think a rule going into it for me is like, Diane is, is right on it. She’s very smart, but she’s not gonna be the one that, forces her kid to do this, that, or the other. She’s gonna give Frankie options and it was important to me to sort of reinforce stuff with the, the parenting in this that like is often I think undercut in a lot of like why literature? I think a lot of times when parents are, are portrayed as being as caring about their kids, a lot of times they’re like the upper class parent with a [00:39:00] lot of extra time to be helicoptery and like Diane is is not that, I mean, she’s not poorly off.

She is professional though, she has a job. She’s not always with her kid, but like, she listens to her kid. And then you have, Tina, who’s Dallas’s mom, who is like, unfortunately. A character that I, I saw a lot of versions of like when when my wife was teaching of like a parent who is well off has all the resources she could possibly need to like, be there for her kid, but like is prescriptive as a parent and is not there to like back her kid up when her kid needs it.

Mm-hmm. There’s a, a lot of like young rich kids with a lot of resources that like, they could, they can afford whatever they want, but they can’t get the things they need from their parents.

Bre Indigo: Sometimes they don’t even know what they want, so how do they know what to ask or what they need, you know, like yeah.

When you need something, you don’t know the solutions out [00:40:00] there. Yeah.

Anthony: Parents are full money, money can’t buy you love. And that is, that is evidence and that’s what I think is so cool about Dallas and her growth as a character is. To this discussion about modeling and positive behavior and boundaries and things of, of that nature.

It’s obvious that that behavior was not modeled in the household. And we see that with Austin, the brother. Yeah. That he clearly has very little to no respect for boundaries and things of that nature and, and class and respect and things like that. And when, when we do meet and, or hear about Tina that the very few instances in which we see her or we hear about her, they’re not really positive. So I think it’s a credit to Dallas that she at least understands that in order to reestablish this relationship with, with Frankie, that [00:41:00] she’s going to have to break out from the.

Kind of the, the structures and the programming that was put upon her by her mother, who ostensibly meant well, theoretically, but, you know, ultimately failed. And so I think that just makes the, the arc for Dallas that much more special and important. Mm-hmm. Cause it’s against the grain of everything that she’s been taught or shown.

Bre Indigo: Yeah, I think it also goes, it’s like a nice example of how important community is outside of like what your blood, what you’re born into. Some family is extremely important. Cause at some point those become your support system in your adulthood. And it’s, I mean, essentially we see that like the friendship that Dallas and Frankie had was important enough so that that was enough to pull her out of [00:42:00] becoming like her mother or, you know without getting you too detailed, it’s like if, if Frankie wasn’t their full self, then that wouldn’t really give Dallas the confidence to do the same.

And so just if, I hope you get where I’m trying to go with that, like,

Anthony: oh yeah, I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. And, and I really just appreciate the, the juxtaposition because it said very early on, I think one of the, the earliest lines, it’s in the first handful of pages that when Frankie, that Frankie came out to the two most important people to them was mm-hmm.

Their mom and Dallas. And then it’s immediately followed up with Dallas being the stereotypical, like, especially when I was first introduced to Dallas, I’m thinking, oh, this is gonna be another like, performative white ally who’s going to make a big thing. Oh, I forgot their pronouns. Oh, so the, and they make a big deal about it.

To show I’m an ally. I’m saying I’m using their correct pronouns. I’m going through all these [00:43:00] things and I’m reading this going, but didn’t, didn’t Frankie just say that this was one of the most important people to them? And yet, so that initial dichotomy was, was a bit jarring for me. But then I understood it over the course of the story, I was like, ah, okay, I get it now.

And, and you know, it’s like two thirds of the way through the book, halfway through the book, whatever that what we understand the history of Frankie and Dallas and what happened prior to all of this. And I was like, eh. Mm-hmm. Now I get it. Now I get it. Jeremy, you sly dog. You, no pun intended.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, I think it’s interesting. It is important to me. And interesting to me that I think like a lot of the like issues with the conflicting parenting styles between[00:44:00] Tina and Diane are also very representative in the way that I think a lot of people deal with their child’s gender.

Which is like, you know, Tina sees Dallas as a small version of herself that is supposed to do the things that Tina does and be feminine the way that Tina is. And is sort of like pushing that onto her and, and trying to make her a little Tina. Whereas like Diane is very like up for her, her kid being what they say they are and like figuring their stuff out.


Bre Indigo: Diane, straight up, like, for me, I was just like, I like that. She’s just like, okay, do what you said. Do. Here’s what you should expect. And if Frankie messes up, she’s like, Yeah. That wasn’t, that was play out how you wanted it to, did it, what did we learn?

Anthony: Yeah. My sister talks about this a lot with her parenting stuff is you have to parent the child in front of you.

And a parent’s job is [00:45:00] to give their child the resources and ability to find who they are on their own terms and then get out of the way. Mm-hmm. That I’ll support you in that endeavor. Otherwise, it’s not my job to pick things out for you to make you do something. If you want to be exposed to this, I’ll introduce you to things, but otherwise I’m not gonna foist my baggage upon you because you are.

That you are a different person. And so Diane, absolutely. And I had it in my notes here that Diane is very much what I think a lot of parents irrespective of gender, race, socioeconomic background, whatever this is what parenting should be, is acceptance of your child, supporting of your child, and then, you know, Bre, like [00:46:00] you were saying to the point of, okay, this is what you wanna do.

All right, let’s, let’s walk this through or talk this out, or, what’s your plan for this? You know, even if it’s something that you think might be dangerous or may have flaws, whatever, I’m not gonna tell you you’re wrong, I just want you to think about this. Mm-hmm. And see

Bre Indigo: the problem, the problem solving skills.

Anthony: Exactly. Exactly. Because if I tell you where you’re gonna go wrong, you’re not gonna pay attention. But if you. Come to that conclusion yourself, the, the light bulb is gonna go off that much brighter and it’s gonna last a lot longer. Right. That makes lot sense. So, so credit to, to Diane for being that kind of a parent and again, credit to, to Jeremy, so Jeremy for writing her, so writing, writing the mom that I think we all wish we could have had, you know, for a parent.

Bre Indigo: Yeah. Tell [00:47:00] wish, wish we could have had,

Jeremy Whitley: You got a degree for making her super cute too.

Bre Indigo: Oh, listen, honestly, it was so funny. As soon as I sent the design to Jeremy, Jeremy’s like, this is my wife. And I was like, oh, hi. He was like, go seriously and send me a photo of Alicia. And I was like, oh, we mind melded or something.

Cause it just worked out. But no, I, I adore Diane. And then on top of that, like, I mean, I’m not gonna go too off the off tangent, but I. Not only did I like relate to Frankie writing it, cause I was like, oh, like I’m healing my inner child with all this frizz as, as cheesy as it sounds. Cause I was like getting to appreciate Frankie at that age with the things that I was dealing with that I didn’t know how to deal with.

But now obviously I do. And then with Diane it was like that protection. I was just like, I relate to both of them so much at my age and half the time I’m just like, I can’t wait to hang out with Frankie and the dogs, but then I’m just like, Diane, I feel you, I feel [00:48:00] you, I’m so sorry. I’m doing this to you. I don’t know how else to explain it.

Anthony: Now, now Frankie. Cuz we, we’ve doing a lot of talking around Frankie and about the, the other peripheral characters. But at the end of the day, this is still ultimately Frankie’s story. We’ll get to the Pawtheon in a minute. But I would imagine that it’s very difficult to. Craft a positive and lighthearted story when, I mean, let’s be honest, it’s, it’s difficult being a, a teenager, you know, in, in that age range.

I forget how old is Frankie in the, in the story?

Jeremy Whitley: Frankie is in seventh grade, so I believe they’re in like the 12, 13 age range.

Anthony: Okay. Seventh grade. Yeah. So that would be like, yeah, around, around 11, 12. So yeah, so, so a tween but teenager. So that is incredibly difficult period and in anybody’s life.

So everybody’s trying [00:49:00] to fit in or figure out where they fit in and who they are and things of that nature. Non-binary. On top of that, and again, not a pejorative, but just. The simple fact that in the society still, it’s not something that is always readily accessible. And I do appreciate that, aside from the handful of bullies, we don’t go through the LGBTQ tragedy tropes that are so common with that.

I do appreciate that. But then on top of that, now they have this additional responsibility, voice foisted upon them mm-hmm. That they didn’t ask for. And, , countless stories, you’re told about superheroes and, and the, the responsibility is thrust upon them and things of that nature. But how did you find a balance in having a character who’s got so much going on internally and even externally, and still manages to maintain that inner fire of positivity and, and spark of, of joy?[00:50:00]

How did you find that balance in, in writing that kind of a story?

Jeremy Whitley: It’s difficult. Some of the reason I think it works is because I have such a this is such a, like, painful thing to put Bre through, but like the amount of like narration from Frankie that’s in this story, I think is, is very key to balancing that. Cause I, I think if you didn’t know what was going on in Frankie’s head, if you weren’t hearing what they were thinking and you weren’t getting sort of that narration from them, they wouldn’t seem as like, happy and, and excited about things as, as they do.

You could read them as, you know, being more downbeat. But that you get a lot of this from Frankie and that Frankie is always. You’re not getting just narration of what’s going on. You’re getting like the thought process in Frankie’s head, the things that they’re thinking about. As things are going on that, like, [00:51:00] I think that’s sort of the key to how it works, it’s so much inside of Frankie’s head that you like really get a feel for who Frankie is and, and how they feel.

And it, it doesn’t allow you to sort of slip into that. Pitying you never pity Frankie in this story because like Frankie is never asking you to pity them. They’re mm-hmm. You know, they’re very present on the page. Yeah.

Anthony: I was thinking about it. I was like, oh, yeah, I never really did pity Frankie.

I wanted to know what happened next and, and I hoped. That it, it turned out great for them, but I was never like, oh man, I wish they weren’t dealing with this. Because it’s just, again, it was never presented in that way where it, it asked the reader to pity them. So again, that’s, that’s a, a credit to you.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, and I mean, I think even in, I mean there are, obviously, there’s one particular part of this story where Frankie is very upset [00:52:00] and very frustrated. And I don’t think, like, even in that, Frankie is ever really, like, you should feel bad for me. Frankie’s like, they’re just so angry about this, there’s a point where their captions are just, ah, you know, which is, is, those are.

Yeah. Which like, that’s definitely a caption that I’ve had in my head before, like where my, my thoughts about the situation aren’t, this is very bad. I am very sad. They’re just like, ah,

Bre Indigo: yeah, I do appreciate that. Allowed to have like, I mean obviously they’re a hu a cartoon human, but like, I like that they’re allowed to have human flaws and still it’s not like, oh, you’re a bad person now or you should feel bad about that.

Like, mom still comes in with a lesson, but it’s never to shame Frankie,

Anthony: you know? Yeah. And again, that just goes to, to speaks [00:53:00] to the character that, that Diane is. She’s gonna sit there with Frankie and console them as they’re dealing with stuff. She may be sneezing her head off while she’s doing it, which I thought was just a, a cute little touch that to make Diane super allergic to the dogs.

I thought that was a, that was a fun thing. So last, last bit of characterization that we’re gonna get into is, is the Pawtheon, which again, just chef’s kiss on the name just really appreciated that. How did you come up with and decide both the, virtues and then you had to match them to a particular breed and then give each of them a very distinct characterization?

What was the thought process there? It was like, oh, I’m gonna match this breed with this virtue, et cetera. I

Jeremy Whitley: don’t know, man. I, I think, like it was pointed out to me by, by somebody who’s it is been a friend of mine and, and has read in my writing for a long time [00:54:00] that like when they read the Dog Knight, they were like, oh, you’ve, you’ve been writing My Little Pony for a long time.

And I was like, I have, I have been writing My Little Pony for a long time, and these are. In essence, like the elements of harmony but for dogs. Because the elements of harmony are all like, what does it take to be a, a good friend? And this is not about being a friend, this is about being a dog.

You know, what do dogs value? Which I, I think was like, the question that I sort of like started with from the Pawtheon is like, what do dogs value, what do dogs thinker is important? And it’s like, it’s, it’s clear to me that like loyalty is obviously a thing. Like dogs are loyal. Dogs obviously care about You know, justice, they obviously care about the way things smell.

I didn’t want all of them to be unquestionably positive, so like, stubbornness being a, a thing that they value is, an important [00:55:00] differentiation to me. Mm-hmm. But yeah, the other ones are, you know, kindness and, and honesty. But like, I think a lot of them were like, I had the idea and then I came up with the name, and then I think most of them had breeds attached by the time they got to Bre.

But I think some of them were a little more ambiguous. I mean, I knew off the top that I, I wanted, the dog that did the most interacting with Frankie to be a golden retriever. And the idea of like, what’s better than a golden retriever? Oh, obviously as a platinum retriever was like, to me, that was like, I’ve, I’m the smartest person in the world.

I’ve done it. That one. And

Bre Indigo: I’ve peaked everybody. That’s it. That’s the career.

Anthony: That’s it. That’s it. I’m, I’m hanging up after this. That’s getting

Jeremy Whitley: better. That one in the Yorkshire terror were the two that I was like, [00:56:00] I’m the smartest person ever. I’ve done it. I’ve solved comics. Cuz like the idea of a Yorkie who thinks he’s Batman is like, so good to me. Like when I had that idea, I was like, that’s so

Anthony: good. Absolutely. Every little dog thinks that they’re this massive hulking thing. The only possible thing that might have been funnier is a chihuahua.

Jeremy Whitley: But yeah, but all I was like, every time he talks, I want it to sound like Batman Wolverine or Darkwing Duck.

Like that’s the range of like his emotions. He needs to sound like one of those characters. He is in a completely different story from everybody else. He thinks he’s in a noir detective story, and we are just like visiting his comic when we’re in his chapter, which I, I think Bre does incredibly because the chapter of, of the trial of justice is all sort of done with the black background that like, even if you’re a kid and you [00:57:00] don’t really recognize that, like that’s what’s happening when you’re reading it.

It’s so obviously feels different than the chapter before or the chapter after it. You know, just by having that black background, it, it changes the context of it. It feels different.

That’s, that’s,


Bre Indigo: expressions are the best. Like, I mean, honestly, I gotta say everybody’s expressions are best.

Was fun to draw his little.

Anthony: I also love if you ever wondered whether a dog had a Scottish brogue. Yeah. Now, you know.

Jeremy Whitley: I really walked myself into a corner with that one because that just meant that I had to write a, like a Claremont X-Men accent for that character. The rest of the

Anthony: series, Claremont X-Men.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Like a Moira Mc Taggar or yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: So you just have to sound like Banshee from now on. Like, you know, it’s, it’s just that kind of of setup. I was like, Ugh, I’ve really done it. Now. I got a bone up on my Scottish slang. [00:58:00]

Anthony: Sorry, I think you did a fair job with it.

Jeremy Whitley: So to some extent it’s up to the reader to read it with a Scottish accent, they have to participate in this.

Anthony: That’s a put, put the onus on then. It’s not my responsibility. I just wrote it. You thought it. So, so the last question I have before before we start wrapping things up is do you have plans for more stories in this universe?

Jeremy Whitley: Oh yeah. It’s it is a trilogy to start off with. This is just the first book.

Bre is already well underway, drawing the second one I have already written the third one. I would love to do more beyond that. That is what has planned so far though. So, if people, people are enthusiastic about it and love the book, there’s, definitely more stories to tell there.

I’ve told my editor, I just, I just want to do a whole book that’s about terror. I just want, you know, the Terror’s version of like a Batman, the Animated Series episode. That’s, that’s

Bre Indigo: am I the only one would who would want origin stories for all the dogs? So, [00:59:00]

Anthony: no, no. Keep me shut up and take my money.

Bre Indigo: Yeah. Right.

Anthony: No, I wanna know all of, we absolutely do it. Yeah, absolutely. I want more stories about how the Pawtheon was created, and there’s, there’s just a mineful of stories there that could be created about all of the dogs because they’re, they’re titles. So prior to each of these dogs, there was another dog that had that, that title.

So I wanna know about them too. And then the one before that, and you know, what happens when the. Exactly. Multiverse is, is is very, it’s very hot right now. Right.

But do they have so hot right now

Bre Indigo: versus a dogs, like honestly, there’s a void right there.

Anthony: Listen, yes. I’m, I’m here for it. Just inject it right into my veins. Gimme, gimme, gimme

Jeremy Whitley: the Multiverse of Wagness, you know?

Anthony: Yeah. Ah, boom. There you [01:00:00] go. There you go. Trademark that. Copyright it. Boom. Listen, you’ve got ins at Marvel. Just say, listen, don’t sue me for this. I’m just gonna take this idea and just, you know, work with it off on the side. They’ll be fine. They’ll be fine.

They’ve got enough money as it is.

Jeremy Whitley: I’m sure they see it that way.

Anthony: I’m not really so sure they do, but, we’ll, we’ll see. We, we can be very convincing. Get, get Diane on the case. I’m, she’s a lawyer. She can talk him and she can talk him into it.

Jeremy Whitley: If anybody could do it. Diane could.

Anthony: Absolutely. Absolutely. So we’re gonna wrap things up now. Jeremy, thank you so much for taking the time. Where can people find you on the internet and how can they read more of your stuff and what have you got coming up?

Jeremy Whitley: So they can find me online at my, my website, which is jeremy or on Twitter at j Rome five eight.

So it’s j r o m e five eight. I’m also, you know, Jeremy Whitley on Tumblr. So if, if you’re still on Tumblr, you’re a diehard like me, you can find me [01:01:00] there. Yeah. As far as what I’ve got coming up I, I have some some stuff with Marvel that hasn’t been announced yet, so I can’t say what it is.

I have some more my Little Pony stuff coming up soon. We’re doing some sort of classic literature adaptations, and they haven’t said what mine is yet, but I know, I know people will enjoy it because I had a lot of fun writing it. And we’ve got, I’ve got a new arc of Sea, of Thieves that’s launching soon.

I know the trade is out in May. I don’t know if the digital step is coming out before then, but we’re revisiting our, our Sea Dogs, our original crew from the, the Sea of Thieves comics. Oh, cool.

Bre Indigo: I wasn’t even aware that there was a comic.

Anthony: Oh yeah. Outta them. Excellent. Excellent. So we’ll have links to all that stuff in the show notes.

Bre, what about you? Where can folks find more of your work and what have you got coming up?

Bre Indigo: My website, Bre Indigo, b r e i n d i g is where you can [01:02:00] find like, just like all the art in one place without having to social media at all. And then my Twitter is bre Indigo underscore. It’s fairly new.

You might have. Like my other one is out there, but Elon stole it from me. There was a bug, so I’m still fighting that. And then my Instagram is n d g o Arts, so you should be able to find that. I’m really bad at social media. I’m just gonna say it, but it is a place you can follow me. And what I’m working on is, like I said, I’m just focusing on Jamie and then the Dog Knight.

And I honestly think I’m gonna dive into personal commissions again afterwards. Or maybe do a illustrations like for children’s books or like chapter books and covers for a little while. Cranking out two, 200 plus page graphic novels in one year. I’m kind of burnt out, but I’m excited to see what’s next.

I’m trying that transition. Yeah.


Jeremy Whitley: should also mention, I, I [01:03:00] usually, when I’m running down this list of things, it’s usually on my own podcast, which I didn’t actually mention because I’m used to doing it on my podcast, which is my, my podcast, which Bre has been on several times, is progressively horrified.

We’re on Twitter at Prog Horror Pod and online at Progressively Horrified. And it’s basically the the podcast is about us watching horror movies and talking about the progressive themes and progressive politics in, in horror and enjoying horror for a, a group of people who’ve traditionally been, been told they don’t have a place there.


Bre Indigo: it’s a lot of fun. I, I love going on. We’re literally, Doing tomorrow, right? Yep. So super excited for the shape of water. Now that was something

Anthony: now, now I’m sure that Doc is kicking himself while he is listening to this because horror is not my bag when we’ve talked about this on the show a couple of different times.

But Doc is definitely appreciative of horror and [01:04:00] I’m certain that he would, love to, to listen to that and, and definitely check that out. So I’ll be sure to, to pass that along to him.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, and we’d love to have him on sometime if he has a horror movie he wants to talk about. There’s definitely plenty of movies out there. Yeah. Horror movies, especially, they handle psychology very poorly.

Anthony: Oh, they, ooh, yeah. That would be interest. Oh yeah. Oh, he knows. He knows. Overwhelming majority of them do, in fact handle it poorly. And so yeah, I will pass that along to him.

I’m sure if he can find time. He will do it, but clearly he has trouble making commitments to our show. I say that tongue in cheek. He’s my best friend. He is my brother. I love him dearly. He’s, yeah, you know, I give him a pass. But so any case we, we are also bad at social media, but it is a necessary evil to day and age.

So you can find our show capes on the couch, on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok capes on the couch. Our website is capes on the, where you can find all of our episodes. And we’re [01:05:00] slowly building up the the transcripts for the, the back catalog. As each of these episodes come out.

Now, they all have a transcript and I am working on filling in the, the transcripts for previous episodes that didn’t already have them. You know, because accessibility nice. And we are a proud member of the Gonna Geek Network. You can find us and, and a host of other geeky shows at

jeremy, and, and Bre as well. I don’t know if you’ve been on play comics or spoken to, to Chris over there, but he hosts a, a comic book oriented show, and he always has different creators on. And I’m sure that he would love to, to have you on to talk about this book.

So I’ll put the bug in his ear to, to reach out to y’all and you know, to continue to to spread the word and love. For this book which you can pre-order where can folks find the, the pre-order for this book that drops on May 16th ?

Jeremy Whitley: It is in both of our Instagram bios and all over both of our Twitters as well.

It is also on the, the [01:06:00] website for McMillan. There’s a, a pre-order on there. So if you look up the Dog Knight, it’s the first thing that pops up. And you can pre-order it now and you’ll get it as soon as it comes out in May. Awesome. You can also pre-order it at your local store or a lot of comic bookstores.

Not all comic bookstores have an account with McMillan, but a lot of them do.

Anthony: Okay. Well, we’ll have links to all that in the show notes because as Chris likes to say, it’s a lot easier to click on things than it’s to spell it all out. So

Bre Indigo: Yeah, I could read out the whole url. You’ll be here for a minute.

Anthony: That’s okay. That’s okay. I, I take you at your word. So Jeremy Bre, thank you so much for taking the time to to speak with us and looking forward to having you back for the next story in the Dog Knight saga. Whenever, whenever that is.

Bre Indigo: Thank you very much. I’m really excited for two. Like obviously I love one.

Ooh, I’m excited for two.

Anthony: Can’t wait. Can’t wait to check it out. So for Jeremy Whitley, for Bre Indigo, and for the presently [01:07:00] absent doc issues, I’m Anthony Sytko. Thank you so much for listening. We’ll see you next time. Thank you.

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