Creators on the Couch - Jordan Blum Transcript

Anthony: Hello and welcome to Capes on the Couch where comics get counseling. I’m Anthony Sytko and this is normally where you would hear doctor issues, but unfortunately Doc got called away last minute for a work emergency and it is a real shame that he is missing this one because we are doing another Creators on the Couch episode.

And this time we have with us the writer of Modoc head games and minor threats. Jordan Blum. Jordan, thank you for taking the time this evening to speak.

Jordan Blum: Thank you. And, and yeah, I’m, I’m bummed as well. I was hoping to get some extra therapy in while I was here, but we’ll make, do , without your cohost.

Anthony: Yeah. Doc is is usually good for helping ask some of those questions and hopefully at least you come away with maybe a little better understanding. Unfortunately like I said, he, he couldn’t be here, but he said, Go on ahead. I know everybody’s time is valuable and I didn’t wanna have to worry about rescheduling this, so I’m just gonna forge on ahead so, Unfortunately without him.

So this is a little weird. I’m used to having him to play off of, but in any case so Jordan, as I said, you are the, the writer of minor threats or the co-writer with Pat Oswalt. And that is currently out on issue two, and we’re gonna get to that in just a little bit. But before we get into that, let’s dive into your background a little bit.

Now, I was doing some research and you’ve got an IMDB page, and one of the first things that popped out of me is you are a writer on community, which was, is a fantastic sitcom. Definitely a show with a very passionate fan base, mm-hmm. and a lot of very, very caring and adoring fans. And we got the six seasons and now we’re just holding out for that movie.

Hopefully one day. But

Jordan Blum: it sounds like it’s coming. Everything I’m reading, I don’t have any inside information, but if I’m reading the trades like you guys, and it sounds like it’s happening,

Anthony: you don’t have, you don’t have Dan on speed dial to just say like, Hey Dan, what’s going on?

Jordan Blum: No. I do run into Dan.

I, When was the last time I saw. At one time I accidentally took. NyQuil instead of a DayQuil before a trip and I was in the airport and I was hallucinating and I ran into him. That was the worst time to run into an old boss, but he was very nice about it as I, in my mind,

Anthony: wonderful story. And maybe we could touch on some of the things you hallucinated later.

Jordan Blum: I was like, Oh my God, how do I, It’s like there’s my old, that’s not my old boss, and Rachel’s like, That’s Dan. And I was like, Oh, I should go talk to him. I’m Rachel, my wife. Sorry. And. You know, he was, he was very kind about me, being out, out of my go.

Anthony: But How did you, so how did you get into the, the writer’s room on community?

Jordan Blum: I started as a writer on an animated show called American Dad, which is kinda like the, the sister show to family guy. And there were some fantastic writers working on there. Chris McKenna. Who you might know as a comic fan is the writer of the last two Spider-Man movies and Ant-Man and Wasp, and and Eric Summers, who’s his, his co-writer on both of those.

But Chris went over to co-run community with Dan, and I think we weren’t sure if American dad was coming back or not, and I was kind of looking to kind of play a little more in, in live action. So I. Submitted myself to Chris and and Dan liked my writing and was hired on, on community for season five.

Anthony: Okay. So I wasn’t sure then. That sort of answered the question. I I wasn’t clear whether you did American dad first or community, but from the, the sound of it, then it seems like American dad came first. So then I. The question then becomes, how did you get in the writer’s room for American dad?

Jordan Blum: So American dad, I was a, a production assistant on the show.

And I so I was, making copies. Getting coffee, that kind of stuff, picking up lunches and, started to befriend the writers and the show runners. And I got promoted to be the show runners assistant and was working very closely with them. And even had a show that we’d sold the Fox that I co-created with one of the show runners.

And by that time I was helping a. Scripts and stuff. And he’s like, Why am I just bringing you into my office? I should just hire you as a writer. And I was like, Yeah, that’s a good idea. I love that idea. And I was staffed and kind of thrown into the deep end and it was really fun. It was a amazing show to work on.

You know, incredible. People like Chris and, and Eric Summers and Na Naka Kahn, was on it. Who, who ran fresh off the boat. And just some, some people have like really gone on to, to have these incredible careers and we’re, we’re kind of the best people to have to educate you and how to write comedy.

Anthony: Awesome, Awesome. So, So back to community then. So you wrote or, or had a majority of the hand in writing? Was it app development and condiments?

Jordan Blum: Yes. That was the, the episode I wrote for that season, or I should say co-wrote. I had a writing partner at the time. And Yeah, it was, it was such a crazy show to work on.

I was a fan of it before I got staffed on it. And it was insane to get to, to be on set and, and collaborate with those, those actors and, and watch it. Kind of come to life. And of course, being a sci-fi guy was very excited that the episode we ended up doing was, a huge kind of sci-fi spoof.

Anthony: Yeah, definitely a lot of those, those tropes evident in that episode. And I also think it was kind of prescient cuz that episode came out in, I wanna say 2014, it looks like, based on the imdb and the way that. And social media and everything. Were in 2014, very different from the way it is now in 2022 in the way that you have the metaverse and things of that nature.

And I, I was almost kinda like eerily foreshadowing cuz my wife and I didn’t watch it when it was first run. We caught it on Netflix or Hulu or something like that and we binged it later and I was like, Wow, this episode has a lot to say. And. It was before that time, like social media was obviously a thing in 2014.

Yeah. But some of the, the tropes and just how the characters are interacting with each other based on their ranking within the app and, to see now with the rise of influencers and, and clout and things of that nature. It was really kind of like I said, eerily, foreshadowing a lot of the things that, that we had seen or that we see now.

Mm-hmm. . So to, to come up with all that eight years ago I think is you know, pretty, pretty wild. Was that’s something that you had envisioned that you just sort of said, Well I sort of see these things happening and we’re just gonna take it to a wacky conclusion, or, Or what?

Jordan Blum: I think so. I think then it was funny, now it’s kind of sad cuz so many. Their happiness is built on followers and ratings and, and, the approval of strangers so . But back then we didn’t think it would, get to a point of where it is now. We were kinda like, Oh, what if people made a yelp?

But for, for humans, you know? And now like there’s probably several of those out there. And I don’t know, I mean, some of it was already there. I was one. First, that first generation of Facebook when it was just for colleges, you know, and you had to have a college id.

So I, I felt like we were, we were there for the ground floor of all the damage this would do to the human race. And kind of felt like. Well the, the best thing of community is when you watch something start in a very relatable place and it kind of spirals almost into the extremes of some sort of genre.

So we talked a lot about like, Logan’s run and those kinds of those futures those dystopic futures and, and what that could look like. And we pulled, I think, a lot of design and stuff so that even though we’re using this modern technology, everyone’s dressing in like seventies era sci-fi, what they thought the future would look like.

So we thought that would clash nicely with the technology.

Anthony: Yeah. Logan’s run influence. Very, very apparent there. And, and what was the other? The Running Man

Jordan Blum: and Zardos cuz we ended up putting sideburns and Star Burns and zardos. So yeah, his, the ARDS outfit. But yeah, running man, all those, you know, that were kind of like all kind of ahead of their time, but everyone was in goofy seventies clothes.

Anthony: Yes. Yeah, it very, very interesting and, and very, very funny. So then Modoc, moving forward a little. The comic, as I understand it, and, and correct me if I’m wrong, the comic came out as a way to kind of promote the, the show.

Jordan Blum: Yeah. So after the show, you know, we had written the show and we were in production.

Marvel approached us about just writing a mo dot comic, and it was our concept of, the show is tonally very different than the modoc of the comics and we’ve created this other world around him. But that’s the fun of comics is continuity in making sense of things. I’m a. Grant Morrison fan, whose theory is that all of it counts.

So all the weird Batman stories from the, fifties, those have to make sense with modern Batman. Those all were part of his history. So I think we try to take that approach with, how would this show make sense with the, the comic book version of Modoc. And I think we found a, a creative way of, of making it the, my.

Of what the comic was, which is that he starts to have visions of this family that’s never appeared in the comic, but, but were from the show and they don’t make sense with the six 16 modoc and, and his goals and who he is. So he is trying to figure out what it is and is it a, you know, a flaw in his programming?

Is someone messing with him or did he live this life, this suburban life? And I think that was the fun of the series, was trying to marry these two different, very different versions of the charact.

Anthony: Yeah, I, I would love to see Morrison come back and do almost a this may may be a deep cut or maybe not, but like a life in times of Scrooge McDuck story for Batman, where you take the Don Rosa and all of those stories that were never intended to.

Within continuity. It was just all of these things diff these different things happened because that’s the story that they wanted to tell. And Carl Barks wove together this master meta-narrative that pulled in everything that made it all somehow make sense. I think Morrison should be given 12 part series, kinda like an all star Superman, but a 12 part series to make it all fit together and just really pull.

Some of the zaney and the serious and everything in between and make it all fit in one coherent timeline and narrative because I think, I think they have the talent and the ability to pull that off. But I think that’s

Jordan Blum: absolutely, I mean, I would buy that in a heartbeat. Oh yeah, I’m sold. I wish I controlled DC I green light that in a second.

Anthony: Yeah. But that, so that’s what it kind of sounds like you, you came up with. Now how did. Hook up with, with Pat Oswalt to do the, the TV series.

Jordan Blum: So when I was at American Dad I created, I think it was that same show I was saying earlier, I created with the, the show runner. And it was kind of a, a superhero comedy.

And when we were talking about it to pitch it to Fox, we were like, Who’s the voice of this? And I was like, Oh, it’s Pat nos. And we reached out and, and he was excited about it and like immediate, like shorthand between the two of us. We were like, Ah, Kirby Crackle. Let me look. Yeah. He gets it. We didn’t have to explain anything to each other.

We just were kind of. From the same cloth and became friends with that. And we saw that to Fox and did a whole presentation and got to spend a lot of time with him. And then we kept in touch over the years. We were running to each other at, at we both go to Golden Apple comics and, see each other occasionally.

And then exec I knew went to Marvel TV and we had dinner and he had some charact. He wanted me to consider, but I, I was like, What about Modoc? And brought it to Pat and like just the kernel of an idea and we flushed it out together and built this whole world and then went and pitched it to Marvel and got to go do the show and, and kind of became even better partners after that and wanted to keep working together and have done obviously minor threats.

And we have a few. Kind of TV stuff cooking. So it just became a, a fantastic partnership of I found my, my kindred geek spirit in patent, and I think vice versa.

Anthony: Yeah, well, he definitely wears that, that geek influence on his sleeve. Anybody who can stand up and add lib an entire. Eight or 10 minute monologue, whatever it is that he did for the Parks and Recreation episode, coming up with the crossover of Star Wars and Marvel and everything that he did off the top of his head is is somebody who’s, who’s bonafides are, are definitely apparent.

Jordan Blum: Yeah, I mean he is, he’s real deal. We have to kind of schedule out an hour when we get together to work. That’s just gonna be recommendations where we talk about what we’re reading, comics, movie, TV. It’s, it’s such a pure love I think that we both share, but he really knows his stuff. And I think you know, that’s the best thing is getting like a recommendation from him, from something I’ve never seen or read.

And knowing like, Oh, you know, I trust his taste so much, I’m gonna completely commit to this. And he’s usually always right. We know we’re. Bullshit about that for at least an hour. So we get that outta our system, then we sit down and we start writing.

Anthony: Yeah, I mean, I, I would love to chat with him. I would kill to have him on the show, but he’s obviously very busy with, with standup and TV and, and so many other things. And also there’s, there’s a small part of me that would almost be afraid to talk to him because I know he is so deep baked. That I feel like anything I would say would just be like, Oh, I, I know I need to do my research and I need to come correct, Because if, if I say, not in a bad way, but just like he knows so much and I just wouldn’t, I wouldn’t know what to say to him.

Like he’d be thrown out references to obscure seventies characters that I have, like only tangentially heard. And he knows their, their entire backstory, and I would just sit there and raptured for the hour. .

Jordan Blum: Yeah. Comics is the only arena I think I can go toe to toe with him on everything else like movies.

I, I think of myself as a cinephile, but then I talk to him and I’m like, I need to watch more. I’m clearly. I’m a fraud , you know, I can’t even call myself as in a file after I talk to him about it. So,

Anthony: yeah. A, his music tastes, I mean, he, he talks about that very much in, in his standup and everything. And I’m always just to, to your point, like recommendations.

If he sees something or if he tweets about something, I’m always like, Oh, okay, I’ll check that out. And then I end up going down this rabbit hole and it’s like, okay, well that was just, you know, now I’ve just bought all these albums that I’ve never, that I’ve never listened to, but Patton says they’re fantastic, so I should probably check them out.

So the, the one thing that I do wanna just talk about about with respect to Modoc before we pivot to minor threats, is the decision to make him like a standard sitcom dad. And that whole concept I think was so brilliant. And I’m not saying that to just blow smoke up, up your butt because you’re here, but I just think from a character stand, And, and you were sort of saying, before how it is so very much not modoc within the six 16, but I think there’s enough there of, of the basis of the character that it kind of could make sense in an alternate universe.

And just again, how did you and Patton come up with the idea that we’re going to take this, mental organism designed only for killing and make. This bumbling sitcom dad while also still operating within the greater Marvel universe, with AIM and, and things of that nature.

So playing with those tropes and just mashing them together. This isn’t like a peanut butter and chocolate thing. This is like a peanut butter and I don’t even know what, And you mashed them together and yet it somehow still tasted good. How, how did you come up with that idea?

Jordan Blum: Well, I mean, we love the character. I think. Pat and I have a very, Oh, that’s obvious. . Yeah. Specific kinda, you know, Deep Marvel lore love, and I think Modoc represents everything we love about comics. Like it is. He’s a giant floating head, Jack Kirby monster, who has that ego, maniacal, Dr. Domish. You know voice that want that thinks he’s better than everyone thinks.

He knows better than everyone wants to take over the world, is so driven to believe that he should be running it. That arte type I think is so exciting to us. Mixed with that visual, like those two things hand in hand are what make Modoc Modoc. I think Modoc is a very flexible character like Batman, where you can do serious.

Body horror, scary, high threat level villain, or he can be a, comic relief and kind of a bumbling villain. And, and he works both ways. So I thought the comedy was kind of already in there, in built into him, but I was thinking, and Pat and I were talking like, you only see Modoc in the context of, I’m gonna kill Captain America this month, and AIM’s gonna take over the world.

And you never see him beyond that. So who’s to. Where he goes or what he does off panel. He can’t stay at AIM all day. Does he go home? Who would marry Modoc? What would that be like? What would his kids be like? Would they resent him? The idea of seeing him. A character like that who we wanted to, make sure we kept that voice, that megalomaniacal voice, but still has to go home and, and deal with family drama and see him in that setting mixed with the other half of the show was, okay, he has aim, they wanna take over the world.

They’re brilliant scientists. What goes into running an evil organization? Is there this mundane element to that that, like is there paperwork that has to be done or HR meetings or things that we just don’t get to see because, Stanley and Jacker, we decide just to focus on the Captain America battle, what happens off panel in both the workplace and the homeplace setting.

And that’s kind of what led us to just, flesh the world out around modoc. But like you said, Keep him still entrenched in the Marvel universe and, and see those two worlds collide. That’s kind of the genesis of, of the show.

Anthony: Yeah. Very much a things I would do if I were an evil overlord that that famous internet list that’s been going around for 20 some odd years and all of the mundane things, to your point that you know you’re gonna have railing so that your henchmen don’t just fall off and you know you’re gonna treat people with respect and all of those things that are involved that.

Subvert the tropes that we’re very familiar with, but also, as you said still in that, that mindset, it kind of reminded me of in, in certain respects of like the BR show going back to the old adult swing. That’s right. Sense of in the, in the sense that you take these characters that are. Villains that are not the people you wanna root for, and then you show their home life and their home life is very much not the way that you would envision it.

And you know that the bra show you had the, the. The dad with the thick Latin accent and, the fifties housewife mom and stuff. And so that was just very much in that, again, that subversive vein. And I loved that show spinning off of the, the Space Ghost coast to coast. So when this came along, I was like, Oh, this hooks me, because it just, it seemed very much something that like would’ve been on adult Swim at one in the morning.

Right when I was in college 20 years ago. So, so that is really what kind of appealed to me. And so I saw a lot of that, not the similarities, whatever, but just that, that tonal similarity in the Modoc show. And that’s one of the totally reasons why I, I absolutely enjoyed it.

Jordan Blum: I think that we were definitely kind of key into. The other thing that we thought was like, again, we love these very arch Marvel villains. A lot of ’em are Silver Age, Bronze Age characters that, every time they show up, they have a new plot to take over the world. Like, well, what happens after you fail, after, 30 years of that.

So I think that also led us to. Taking that kind of character, who’s an ego man, and putting them through a midlife crisis was also really interesting. Cause I’d never seen that with villains. And you know, if you do keep getting your asking into you by the Avengers time, after time, after time is gonna take its toll on you.

And, and your confidence. And I think that was such a, a fun thing to, to take that kind. Silver age, bronzes age, character and, and, and go, Well how are they gonna react to this when you strip them of everything? Cause their whole identity’s built around being a super villain and this is what they do.

And what happens, so happens when you lose, he loses his company at aim. Or what happens when he doesn’t have the respect he thinks he deserves at home from his family, and you strip him. What’s left of that villain and, and, and are they gonna fight to, to kind of take back their life? And we thought that was kinda an interesting thing to, to put that kind of villain through.

Anthony: Yeah. And, and we talk about that on our show because we analyze the characters, not just heroes, but also villains. And we discuss what has led these characters to these points. And are there any moments along the way where they reached the bottom? And there’s this rebirth, and I, I personally always enjoy stories where, like you said, everything is taken away from them because then you find the essence of that character and you find out who they are, and that’s the beauty of.

I always point to something like Duck Amuck the the Chuck Jones cartoon where you take everything away from Daffy, literally everything away from Daffy. What remains is the pure, Is he still Daffy duck without the voice, without the appearance, without this, that and the other, Is there still some indescribable thing that.

That essence of Daffy Duck. And the answer to that is obviously yes, as based on the cartoon. And so I’m always intrigued by stories like that and like the, the TV show where you break the character down so that you can find out what makes them tick. You know, it’s a deconstruction. Mm-hmm. followed by the reconstruction because.

Think decon without the recon is just, I don’t wanna say cruel, but you know, you, you break it down just to see how it works so that you can put it back together better. That was somebody quoted, it was,

Jordan Blum: Well, it’s like an unfinished story, right? If you think of the three act structure, or the hero’s journey, you have to break your character down, but your movie’s not over until they rebuild themselves and, and they become someone new in the third act.

So if you don’t have that part of it, you’re not getting the full.

Anthony: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and again, I also just the fact that Modoc is, he is obviously a high level threat, but he’s also not really one of the characters that is like, when you think. Like the flashy, well known top tier Marvel villains.

He’s not quite there. I think frankly, he should be based on what he can do and based on the the threat level that he can possess. But to your point, yes, he can go toe to toe with all the Avengers and come up with these major schemes, or he can get his ass kicked by like the new Warriors. You know, like half a heartbeat.

I don’t know that that’s ever actually happened, but you know, just like, I’d like to see it . I’d like to see Steve, but he can be used sometimes that like, Right, we need to show that they’re, they’re taken on a villain. Somebody not, it can’t be like, you know, a no name joke, but it can’t be like a huge name.

All right. Modoc, he’s in that middle ground and.

Which I think drives him crazy. I think he’s so aware of that. And he wants, yes, he wants to be top tier. He wants to be like a skull doom, Magni. Like he wants to be on that level where he demands that respect. But he’s not quite there.

Jordan Blum: No, but I think he is capable of it, and I think it’s his own ego that trips him up.

He constantly gets in his own way. And I think that’s what we really wanted to do on the show was was have that happen where it’s. You’re what’s holding you back. It’s no one else. It’s not your powers, it’s not your company. It’s your need to prove yourself instead of complete the mission.

That stops you.

Anthony: Yeah. And if you take the time to sit, and we talk about this on the show, that if you take the time to sit and self-analyze, You can discover those things, but so many people, we were just talking about this, we recorded an interview with another creator last night and we were talking about characters.

We were talking about Tim Drake and how Tim is over intellectualizing everything, and he’s always trying to solve everybody else’s problems because as long as he’s focusing on everybody else, he doesn’t have to look internally. And Modoc is another one of those characters that is always looking externally for the motivation and the valid.

So that he doesn’t have to look inside, because if he turns his, brilliant computer brain towards himself, he’s not really gonna like what he sees, right? And, but then who does he become? And that’s one of the things that I think the show does pretty well, is trying to figure out, Okay, everything else is taken away from me.

How did I get here? And what is my next step? Mm-hmm. , you know, and that’s those kinds of stories. Again, like I said, I, I always thoroughly enjoy. And again, the characters that are there, but not quite as high, you know, tier one level characters. And I always admire people who have a love and appreciation for those lesser known characters because anybody can be a fan of, of Captain America’s Superman, Spider-Man, like the big names.

It takes something special to be able to say, You know what my favorite villain is, like the trickster. You know, my favorite hero is you know, somebody from like the gla or, or what have you. Yeah. Like where, where your favorite characters are. Somebody. Isn’t always going to get that high level of respect.

I’m, I’m a Moon Night fanatic for years, like, well before the show. And, you know, going back to like 2006 when he was like, you know, just coming up with the, the Houston and Finch run. Right. Everybody was like, Oh, Moon Night. Who? Oh yeah, I, I think I saw him in a Spider-Man book once, you know, And meanwhile I’ve got like every comic he’s ever appeared in.

And so they were always like it’s a, it’s an odd choice of a fando. I’m like, I also like Captain America. You know, I have the shield tattoo.

Jordan Blum: Oh, your podcast makes more sense now. What? Your podcast makes more sense knowing that Moona is your favorite character.

Anthony: Yeah, I suppose it does. I suppose it’s

Jordan Blum: the ultimate mental health hero, right?

Anthony: Yeah. Yeah, there are. There are quite a few of those. I think we did like our third or fourth episode on him, like way back, early off when we started. You know, and then, like I said, then the show, and now all of a sudden there’s everybody. Oh, I love Moon night. I love moon night. And you know, I’m trying not to be gatekeeper, but I’m like, But do you really

So, let’s pivot to minor threats because Sure. I am really enjoying this book. Well, thank you. You know, two issues out so far. I’m very much looking forward to seeing where this is going. You know, and while we’re, you know, sort of pivoting their, the discussion. Like lower tier characters.

This entire book is around essentially like de-list villains as comic relief. And I, I enjoyed when this was done, kinda like with the superior foes of Spider-Man, where they mm-hmm. , they very much took like that slice of life for, from some of those, you know, those third tier spy villains. But this takes it to a much darker place and.

How did you and Pat come up with the idea for minor threats and using these D listers to tell this kind of story?

Jordan Blum: Well, if you watch Modoc, it’s no secret. These are our favorite kind of characters. We did the whole episode where he goes to the bar with no name and you know, I was a big Spiderman and Flash or the, or two of my favorite characters who have these, jobber, these guys, these blue collar.

Villains who don’t have no interest in taking over the world. Kinda the opposite of Modoc. They just wanna knock over a jewelry store so they have enough money to pay their alimony and pay for a few drinks, at whatever super dull bar they’re going to. And I love that that they, these were just super hum.

These were very human characters. Who reminded me a ton of, of my favorite characters in, in crime fiction. You know, they, they felt like Coen Brothers characters to me, and the idea of combining those two things, these, these lower tier sea listers with a kind of crime fiction world that explored what it’s like to be these, these kind of underdog low to your criminals who wanna be taken more seriously, who wanna escape.

Crappy lives that they’re trapped in because of circumstances and that maybe there’s that one job that can elevate them either within the community or so that they can escape it, for good. And I think there’s something so human about that, that we wanted to flesh these characters out.

And I think what’s fun is a lot of them were created, you know, in the sixties, seventies you know, kinda Bronze age characters who were meant to be these one. Kind of goofy characters with some kind of gimmick, and then you never see ’em again. But they kept coming back, so that meant they had lives, that.

And what were these lives like, and where did they go? And what, Then you go even deeper and you’re like, What trauma led you to like, put on a snake costume and go like, This is how I’m, I’m gonna make money and escape this neighborhood, or escape this life. This is my only way out. And I think finding that was, was to me, the heart of what the, the book was.

Anthony: Yeah, and, and play time as sort of the POV character in the first one. And I feel like she may not be necessarily the ringleader of the group, but there’s, she’s very much kind of the, the audience surrogate in many ways, or at least I kind of envision.

Jordan Blum: Yeah, she’s absolutely the protagonist I think of the book, even though we jump narrators, she’s always driving it for sure.

Anthony: First off. Yeah, definitely. And, and I just, I really enjoyed, you know, a just the, the power set and the explanation of everything, and b, She is, is obviously trying to make a better life for herself, but her mother is very much not. Her mother is like, I need you back. You’re throwing this away.

Like, we could be so great if you would just come back with me. And she’s like, Yeah, whatever mom. Like, get the hell outta here. You know, and I, I just thought that use of that trope, and again, you were talking about the bar with no name to make her as like the bartender there was, was so brilliant because those.

CD Hangouts must have so many great stories and, and I always love the little bit of slices of, of life when we see them, whether it’s in the comics or there was one in like, I think it was like a Batman animated episode where they were like kind of all at the, They’re all telling stories at the bar Yeah.

On that episode. Yeah. You know, again, it’s just the, the way you play with the tropes I think is, is fantastic. And then obviously the characters that you’re using are loving, but off kilter, pastes of some of these, you know, very well known and established characters. How do you come up with the characters and, and the power uses and saying, Okay, well we’re gonna make, you know, we’re gonna make a spoof on this character, but here’s what we’re gonna do.

You know, here’s what we’re gonna do with them.

Jordan Blum: Yeah. Well I think sometimes we’ll start with, gimmicks or power sets. Other times, there, there’s kind of a bigger thematic thing going on in the book, which is a lot of these characters, like I said, represent this, this Silver age, bronze age kind of goofy time.

So we were talking about like, what would it be like if you were the shock. Or Pace Pot Pete or whatever, and all of a sudden Frank Miller shows up, and changes comics or Alan Moore and like, The heroes are shooting people. Like, what happened? This, This seems to be like a fun thing.

Like you’d be the idea of like being dragged into this modern age when you’re a relic of the silver, bronze age, a much more innocent time. So we kind of wanted that to be the vibe of a lot of the characters we were following, which is that like they’re past their prime. They’re, they’re nostalgic for an era that doesn’t exist anymore.

Specifically, Frankie’s mom. But they love it and it’s the best time of their lives, and there was a code amongst them. And so Frankie whose playtime is, is very torn because villain means a lot of different things to her. On one hand, it’s the things she shared with her mother. It’s the world she came up in.

It was exciting. It was crazy. And it was her identity. And, and she was a proud part of it. And on the other hand, it ruined her life and she’s lost time and she’s been to jail and she has no relationship with her daughter, and she has this incredible power, but every time she uses it, it just, You know, screws up her life even more.

So what do you do? What do you do when you’re, you’re trying to figure these things out. So we wanted to kind of pull her in two directions where, her mom is the devil, on her shoulders saying like, This is who you are. This is the world, you know, this is where you belong. You have these powers.

You’re better than everyone. You shouldn’t live a normal life. And frankly, going, Well, when I do that, I lose out on relationships and, and normalcy. And then, we wanted her to kind of realize as the series is going, she’s really good at being a villain. So like, you know what, what happens if you are this like incredible pitcher who can, throw over 90 miles per hour, with every pitch.

You don’t wanna play baseball, Baseball has ruined your life. So that was kind of the, the thinking with that character was to kind of have her be pulled in different directions where she knows what the right path is. But this is a story about villainy and villains don’t always make the best decisions.

Anthony: I think it’s the fact that the villains don’t make the best decisions is, what makes them villains. But I also love the stories where villains do make the right decisions, because then it becomes, ha, you know, and, and people much smarter than I am have probably expanded upon this in much more eloquent ways, but the best villains are the ones that reveal things about ourselves that we may not like or that we may be ashamed of or afraid of.

But you go, Oh, okay. I guess I didn’t really think of it that way, , and it’s sort of. The quote from community just popped into my head. I hope this doesn’t awaken anything in me, but you know, that idea of going, Hmm, okay, I, I, maybe I need to rethink some things. And and I think a good example of that is brain tea.

We see a lot, He’s sort of like the central character and, and flashback for, for episode two. And he is very much, the ridler gone horribly, horribly wrong. And I just, I really enjoyed the use of the, abusive father. I’m trying not to say too much for, you know. No, you can spoil.

It’s fine. Yeah. , you know, the, the abusive father and stuff like that and the backstory. But just the way in which his, his power set works and how he’s always like, I can solve the puzzle. I know where the pieces go before I can solve the puzzle, but I can’t break this curse. And I can’t logic my way out of this.

And that is so relatable for so many people who are like, I’m a very rational person. I’m a very logical person. I can see where all these things go and what do I do when I’m in a situation where logic isn’t going to get me out of this, where logic isn’t the answer And I think that is mm-hmm. . So emotionally relatable and so powerful and.

So damn heartbreaking. Frankly, I, I felt really bad for brain teas after all of that. So, you know, kudos to you and Patton for coming up with that, and just sort of creating that kind of a character.

Jordan Blum: Well, I think that’s based on, I mean, the smartest people I know have some of the biggest hangups or issues or, or have a real hard time with relationships or moving forward or achiev.

There are goals where you’re like, you’re, you’re smarter than, everyone. I know you’re just way smarter than me. Like, go chase that thing you wanna do. But they almost, they get in their own way or they out, they overthink things to the point where they’re, they’re powerless to make. Change in their life because they’re so analytical and they’re so brilliant that they talk themselves into circles and, go down philosophical rabbit holes where it kind of prevents them from, going on that date or taking that job or all these things.

But they’re absolutely the most logical intellectuals I’ve ever met who, you know, they. These issues, they’re very aware of their, their own personal setbacks. They see them coming a mile away, but they can’t avoid them. So we thought that was kind of an interesting thing where you have a character who’s almost, you know, with his deductive powers, if you will.

We wanted to keep it kind of vague. If you know, is he a precog? Can he really just gather information and see that far down the road? We kind of wanted to leave it a little open, but either way, he clearly sees how things tie together and lead. You know, certain conclusions, and it’s like being in a car with no brakes, like he can’t, or, and not being able to steer and it’s just, you’re just on a one way collision, even though you the intellectual know better and, you should be able to swerve the wheel or, or step on the brake and you can’t.

And I think that’s a, a problem a lot of people have. But again, it’s a lot of times very smart, very intellectual people I’ve met. Continually hit the same problems in their lives knowing that there is a way to be happier or successful or whatever, whatever. It’s,

Anthony: yeah. Now, now the heroes in this book, we don’t see too much of them. There’s the insomniac who’s the badman paste.

Jordan Blum: Well I didn’t get that from the comic. No kidding. .

Anthony: I was like, for, for a split second, I was like, Whoa,

Jordan Blum: really? I just thought we were going for it. No. Yes, he’s definitely Batman.

Anthony: Yeah. And but it’s this idea of, of the heroes that are. Supposed to be the, the upstanding paragon of virtue and things of that nature. I, what is the, the name of the organization? It’s not the The continuum. The continuum. Thank you. I was like the Omni something. The continuum. That’s it. They’re kind of going, dare I say, boys.

You know, like if the boys on everybody in the sense that they’re just going in this full lockdown. But one of the interesting things that there was, there was a reference to, or somebody made a, a comment in the second issue, it may have been playtime. Something to the, the effect of, that they’re taking, they’re, they’re beating up the, the villains.

So that Stickman may necessarily get to them or turn them into Oh, the insomniac.

Jordan Blum: They’re worried about the insomniac. I think the idea is that, the loss of, of kid Dusk are, are based kinda our robin in this, it, it’s broken, you know, one of the best heroes in, in this world. And, you know, he’s just like, he’s, he wants to get the stick man.

He’s, all he can see is revenge. He’s like to see is red and he’s just tearing his way through the city. And he’s gonna kill some people, probably some villains, cuz he’s working his way through the underworld. Cause that’s what happens, you know, when, when our stick man is clearly, you know, kind of our joker or like when the, you know, the A-list villain holds the city hostage.

It’s the sea listers who pay the price. And that’s kind of what we wanted to show. But yeah, he’s, he’s unhinged, he’s out of control. You know, we really wanted to write him sort of as like jaws in this, where he’s not a main character, he’s just this thing swimming in the shadows that comes up occasionally to feed.

And as he’s searching for stick man and, you know, the continuum, I think they’re, they’re purely out to save their kind of public persona. So, If, if the Sonia kills someone, he’s crossed the line, that’s gonna reflect terribly on them. So they don’t care about the villains. They only care about saving face.

So they’re trying to basically get all the villains off the street by arresting them, kind of turning the place into a police state. Not because they care about their wellbeing, but because they’re worried about. What happens if Inso neck finds them and kills them? So there, it’s kind of a race to find the stick man where everyone’s after him because, you know, if they can get to the stick, man, they can put an end to this.

If the, our heroes, the, the minor threat can find him, they can kill him and collect the bounty and things will go back to normal. And obviously the insomniac is driven by pure revenge. So it’s kind of, everyone has their own motivation to find this, this villain Who’s in hiding? After, after killing Yeah.

Anthony: So you know, what if Batman snapped after death in the family kind of deal? You know, and, and was like, Okay, Jason’s dead. I’m gonna kill everybody now and I’m just gonna cross that line. How, how far ahead is this story going in? Is this an ongoing or is it a mini or limited series?

Jordan Blum: It’s a four issue mini, but there are definitely some plans I can’t, can’t talk about yet.

But you, you won’t be seeing, It’s not the end of, of the story. I’ll say that. It’s not the end of the universe. Not the end of the universe. No, not the universe or Frankie’s story.

Anthony: Okay. Okay. Excellent. Well, I’m very much enjoying it. And the artwork is, is fantastic. I think it really helps tell the story.

I like the, the color palette and, and just the expressiveness and the action and the, expressions. The facial expressions on these characters are, are absolutely fantastic. So full credited to the art team as well. We talk to a lot of writers on the show, obviously, but yeah,

Jordan Blum: Scott also was an artist on Modoc on the comics, so it was a bit. Us kind of keeping that going after we had such good time with him on, on Motorhead games, and he’s got such an eye for design like you said, the acting and the action. Usually you don’t get all of that , And he’s just in the world building. He’s incredible at all. It,

Anthony: yeah, it, it’s, it’s you know, real joy to read. Right. So, so then I guess, moving towards towards the end here, you said that this isn’t the end. This universe and these, and some of these characters. So we’re gonna keep an eye out for that. What else do you have in the hopper? And I think you had mentioned at one point that you and Pat are working on a couple of other different things.

Is there anything you can talk about? Anything that you can, you know, sort of mention?

Jordan Blum: I wish I could. We are, we are not done with superhero universes yet, but I can’t really say much more than that. And Trying to think what else I can talk about. I’ve got some more Marvel work coming up, but I can’t, I can’t announce what but yeah, I, I’m sorry.

I’m so vague. It’s all these NDAs and stuff that isn’t either far enough along or allowed. For us to, to talk about yet.

Anthony: I, I understand. We’ve spoken to enough writers and we’ve had writers who have turned their cameras off while they’re talking to us because they’ve got a giant board behind them and they’re like, I can’t have you see that because it’s got things that haven’t been announced yet, or I’m working on story threads for something that.

Is ongoing, but I can’t spoil it for you. So I get it, it’s frustrating as a fan, but it does give little crumbs and, and enticements you know, to, to keep on top of things and, and follow along in the future. So, Jordan wrap this up then. Where can folks find you on the internet, social media, et cetera, so that they can follow along and, and keep tabs on minor threats and, and the, the future projects yet to be formally.

Jordan Blum: I’m Blum Jordan on Twitter and Instagram. So the best places to find me. And yeah, hopefully we can announce some stuff soon, but I definitely, if you are enjoying minor threats there are some, some big plans in the work. Like I said, we’re not just. These characters were for the universe in general.

So, so stay tuned.

Anthony: All right. Well we are gonna encourage all of our listeners Patreon and, and otherwise to go out and check out the book, pick up the, the floppies. I always tell people, if you really like a book, pick up the issues. Don’t just trade weight because that helps move things along.

A lot of people go, Oh yeah, that’s great, and I’ll wait for the trade. Well, that. Doesn’t help, because then it’s gonna be like six issues or 12 issues and done this being a four issue mini is, is, you know, obviously one thing. But but I always tell people, you know, go to your Loho comic shop, pick up the f floppies, pick up the individual issues.

I’ve got a file cabinet behind me with like, you know, 2000 comics in it. They’re bagged and boarded. But I do that because, you know, I, I love the characters and I, I got my traits too, but yeah, I, I need to pick. You know, the individual issues, Although if full disclosure, I got minor threats one and two on Comicology because I didn’t have enough time to run out.

Jordan Blum: Another great way to read them.

Anthony: Yeah, exactly. I like the physical books in my hand, but you know, digital obviously does work great and you know, you can just get. Anything there. I, I do hate giving Amazon money, but that’s another story entirely , but I was like, it’s, it’s there. I, I gotta do it. So you can find all of our, all of our episodes on our website, capes on the couch.com.

We are on, we are on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok at capes on the couch. We love chatting with creators and you can go on our website and you can type in creators on the couch and find all of our prior creator interview. This one has, is gonna be a patron exclusive for a while, but then it will eventually get released to the main feed at some point down the line so that the rest of our fans can go ahead and check that out.

Again, apologies, Jordan, that Doc couldn’t join us this evening, but I’m sure. Yeah, I’m sure you know, he’ll he’ll listen to this episode and go, Oh man, I wish I, you know, I’ll talk to him afterwards and he’ll say, Oh, you should have talked to him about X, Y, and z. And I’ll go, Duh, you’re right.

So I guess we’ll just have to have you on again in the future. Maybe you know, after some of these, these other projects are announced, we’ll we’ll have you back on and you can say, Oh, remember when I was on talking about minor threats? We couldn’t talk about this. Well, now I can tell you about this project and these characters.

Jordan Blum: Absolutely, I’d love to.

Anthony: So for Jordan Blum, I’m Anthony Sytko. Thank you so much for listening. We’ll see you next time.