Issue 182 – Ventriloquist Transcript

Issue 182 – Ventriloquist

Anthony: Hello and welcome to Capes on the Couch, where comics get counseling. I’m Anthony Sytko.

Doc Issues: And I’m Dr. Issues.

Anthony: This is issue 182, and we are talking about the Ventriloquist slash Scarface, depending on how you know the character better. Some folks like to focus on Wesker or the person in charge of the dummy.

But certainly the dummy Scarface is the much more, shall we say, personable aspect of the character. Doc says he always thinks about Scarface, less the Ventriloquist, when he envisions the character. And I’m sure he’s not alone in that.

Doc Issues: Yeah, and we’ll get into why a little bit later.

Anthony: Yep, so quick reminder that again, if you haven’t already, go and get your tickets for PuchiCon, Poconos, Sunday October 22nd at 11 a. m. Doc and I will be presenting a panel there. We’ll be talking about Spike Spiegel from Cowboy Bebop, which as of this recording, I am almost finished with and no disrespect to Trigun, but this is way better. I’m enjoying this a lot more. And I enjoy Trigun, don’t get me wrong, but this is like on a whole other level above it.

Doc Issues: All right, good to know. I’m glad that something that I like hits home somehow.

Anthony: I mean, even when I was talking to other people and I like, I was talking to my mother about this and my wife, because again, I didn’t know Trigun before you suggested that we were going to do the episode and the panel on Vash the Stampede.

I knew Cowboy Bebop. So, I kind of explain this to my mom, my wife, as Cowboy Bebop is the anime that you show people who aren’t into anime. Yeah. Because it just, it elevates the genre. True. And I definitely get that vibe after 20 something episodes. I’m almost done. I’ve got like a handful left, but enough about spike.

We are here to talk about the ventriloquist. So let’s get into the background. The ventriloquist, Arnold Wesker, and we’re talking to the first ventriloquist because there are at least three characters with that title. We’re going to be focusing on the original Arnold Wesker created by John Wagner, Alan Grant, and Norm Brayfogle in detective comics, number 583.

February 1988. So Arnold Wesker is a meek man from a mafia family who originally developed dissociative identity disorder after witnessing his mother’s murder, but then his origin was later retconned. He was imprisoned in Blackgate prison. After being essentially accused of taking part in a fight that he really didn’t have anything to do with, he begins hearing voices from a dummy named Woody, and the voice is convincing to murder his cell mate.

And during the fight, Woody is damaged and takes on the name Scarface. Now, it’s important to note that in this version, the dummy was made from wood that was used in Blackgate’s old gallows. And depending on the writer, there are conflicting reports whether the dummy is possessed or not, or if it’s just Wesker.

snap and creates the characterization of Scarface. In either version, Scarface, the puppet, becomes the controlling force and Wesker is his puppet to the point that Scarface becomes enraged if people insist on speaking to Wesker and not him. Now, one telltale sign is that Wesker slash Scarface is unable to pronounce the letter B.

He replaces it with G. Batman becomes Gatman, bullets become gullets, etc. So at one point Wesker was committed to Arkham Asylum and upon escaping used a sock puppet named Socko, not to be confused with Mick Foley, though I have a fantastic idea for a TikTok video so stay tuned to our social media pages after this episode comes out because I’ve I’m really gonna play with that.

When Scarface learned he had been replaced, he and Sokko had a gunfight resulting in damage to Wesker’s hands. Hashtag! Because comics! So after an earthquake nearly destroys Gotham, a new villain called the Quake Master shows up demanding a ransom to prevent further earthquakes. Tim Drake, who’s operating as Robin at this time, is able to deduce it’s Scarface because the Quake Master refuses to pronounce any word containing the letter B.

See, he has an on again, off again partnership with the Penguin, where they often break each other out of prison. They work together on criminal enterprises. You can go back and listen to our Penguin episode as to why Oswald would be very interested in going into business with someone like Scarface. I think it definitely appeals to that business side of him.

So he’s murdered by the Tallyman in an effort to frame Harvey Dent, and he’s later resurrected during Blackest Night as a member of the Black Lantern Corps and creates a construct of Scarface with his ring. Then the new 52 version reveals he was never actually killed and he was hospitalized for treatment of his D. I. D. He’s then briefly controlled by the Venom serum, but was taken down by Nightwing and Damian Wayne. He succeeded as Ventriloquist by a woman named Shauna Belzer who had her own puppet named Ferdi. And it’s very interesting because Harley Quinn became very close with Wesker and hates Shauna because She’s not Arnold and Scarface.

And so Harley really doesn’t like that this new woman has butted in and taken over the mantle.

Doc Issues: Right. Well, the other thing about it is it’s clear that Shawna views the puppet as a show. And by show, I mean, sometimes it’s explosive, sometimes it’s booby trapped with other things. The point being, it’s the prop, not the purpose.

Anthony: Yeah, it’s much more of just a shtick. For Shauna, it’s hurt. villain gimmick versus Arnold where it’s clearly established that they are operating as a duo. You don’t get one without the other. So he helped Batman defeat Psycho Pirate because his D. I. D. was able to override Pirate’s emotional control powers since Scarface was really in charge and Psycho Pirate was trying Wesker’s mind.

Which is already under the control of the puppet. Hashtag because comics. That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works. And we’re going to get into the issues to explain why. So the theme for this episode is the pawn who would be king. And the first issue that we’re going to discuss is dissociation, depersonalization, and derealization.

The three D’s. And Doc, take it away.

Doc Issues: So I just want to give a little bit of inside baseball. So originally, Anthony put dissociative identity disorder, and anybody that has heard any of our previous episodes knows that I threw up in my mouth a little bit. It’s because, oh dear, I don’t want to get in trouble.

I’m not saying that DID doesn’t exist. That’s, it clearly does, but I think we can have a healthier discussion if we deal with different symptoms. of traumatic experience, which is much more widely versed than just the pigeonhole of DID. So let’s take these one by one. Dissociation or disassociation, depending on how some people pronounce it or how you spell it, refers to the idea that you are completely split.

That is a different personality from you, your base, completely. And however many there are, How developed they are, whether or not they know each other, all those things are fair game. I’m not going to get into the details of how each one forms and all of that, if they really are true, et cetera, et cetera.

That’s the thing that everybody puts up with when they’re dealing with media presentations, and it’s the one that is the most sensational, but isn’t the most prominent. So I’m going to put that on the back burner. And this is going to be really controversial. I’m not sure it applies to the ventriloquist and Scarface.

I’m going to go out of order now. De realization is the idea that you’re not sure of what’s going on right now. It almost feels like a dream, an out of body potential experience. Not quite the idea that it’s someone else, but just like, I don’t know. I’m watching things happen. And, that’s that.

And you might want to even challenge yourself or ask people, like, is this real life? A lot of times people focus on this when they’re in certain intoxicated states. And so it’s a very, very common thing and something that many people can relate to. I think we’re getting closer. I’m not sure this applies to the ventriloquist and Scarface.

Depersonalization is the idea that you have. The full knowledge that what you are doing is you and what is happening is to you if it’s something else, but you’re outside yourself. It’s as if you’re witnessing everything happen in the third person. Think over the shoulder shooter, like in the most recent Resident Evils.

That is something where you wonder if someone else is in control, even though you know it’s you ultimately that’s going to be responsible. So imagine if you took that And even though you had a passive role and we’ll get that to, to the other issues later, but imagine that and being able to put it in an avatar form and having it as a part of you and interacting with it.

And yes, it does get to the point of maybe true DID with the original dissociation point, but doesn’t that make a lot more sense if you’re saying that this thing that is directly connected to you is giving orders and has ambitions. And things that you’re going to benefit from, even if you, from a personality standpoint, in terms of your timidity or other things that you want to be thinking about, aren’t going to take the lead on, I think that makes more sense.

And I think this is up for discussion. I’m not saying that I’m the authority on this. I’m just saying, when you put it in that perspective, I think that’s the closest that we would use to discuss something like Scarface and the Ventriloquist.

Anthony: Interesting. Interesting. I confess, I have obviously not read every Scarface Ventriloquist story, and I also haven’t read the full extent of psychological evaluations on Scarface slash Ventriloquist.

I suppose maybe this is something where we could get Dr. Langley back on the show to talk about whether or not DID or, depersonalization or derealization would be a more accurate assessment of someone like it. Maybe we’ll we’ll reach out to Dr. Langley and see, maybe we’ll get you writing a chapter in, in a future book.

Doc Issues: Yeah. With my average of 60 hour work weeks. That’s what I want right now.

Anthony: Well, you know, listen, we can’t let Ben from Popcorn Psych take all the guest credits. We gotta, we gotta get in there somewhere. To your point, originally put in there D. I. D. just because that seems to be from what I had read and everything that was online, one of the biggest issues.

Doc Issues: Right. I, I think it’s because… But your take on it obviously does make a lot more sense. Well,

it’s nuanced. I mean, it’s not because, I don’t think because anybody thought that D. I. D. is wrong, and I don’t think D. I. D. is wrong. I’m saying, let’s just… Parse it out a little bit more. We have the obvious trauma history that would lead to some form of these types of symptoms, but it’s like, okay, let’s, let’s drill down a bit.

Now, if you go by the animated series version, it’s clear it’s DID in the sense that even with the voice recognition they use in the, on the computer in the Batcave, it’s like, it’s amazing. Even the computer identifies it as two different people. So there you go. Having said that, I’m just pointing out even the.

Even the way the art is done in the comics, usually the whole point is you have this flat face Wesker and this usually very graphic, like, stereotypical mobster in one way or another, and some of the cartoons go wild with it, if you ever see the giant Scarface, that’s pretty cool they, they make sure that, you know, you, you know, there’s a difference, but it still leaves that mysterious side of, of Wesker. Like what? You can’t tell me you’re a blank slate, dude.

There’s something, there’s something going on in that head.

Anthony: Yeah. And again, I think a lot of that, even in the comics is left up to debate whether or not there’s any sort of, dare I say, sentience within Scarface the puppet, or Is it really just all Wesker controlling? So it’s, it is an interesting concept to see kind of how it’s all played out.

And, you know, a lot of this, as I said, is left up to the writer and also in theory, the artist to make that determination. So it’s, it’s an interesting take, so we’ll see how much we can tie in with the subsequent issues. So we’ll jump into issue number two then, and that’s subordination and the whole issue of who’s really in control.

Is it Wesker or Scarface? Because if you ask the puppet, the human is the dummy, which is an interesting presentation.

Doc Issues: Yeah. And to make it relevant to all of us, I’m going to use some very obvious references as many of you have probably heard before ad nauseum. I like sports. And I’m going to use the idea from a couple of very successful teams.

The first one I’m going to use is the San Antonio Spurs. Tim Duncan, five time NBA champion, perhaps the greatest power forward of all time. Greg Popovich was their coach. This is a random story and I’ll go ahead and give a random pitch to All the Smoke, which is a podcast. One of the people is Steven Jackson, who was an NBA player, known to be very outlandish and, and opinionated and confrontational at times, very different personality than someone like Tim Duncan.

But he pointed out when he got relegated to the bench, he was ready to go at Popovich and be like, just. in his face, like challenge, all that stuff. The thing was Popovich is very militant. I mean, he has a military background, so it’s not surprising. But the point was he yelled at Tim Duncan just as much as any other player.

And Steven Jackson even admits, he says, well, Tim Duncan was just taking it. He didn’t yell back. He didn’t pout. He just went and did his job. And he’s like, well, if the greatest player on the team can take it, then I can’t say Jack. I gotta take it. You know, I, I’m willing to fall in line. And what do you know, the team was successful.

So that’s an example where I think often because of what we want to do for individuals with this podcast, yes, we want everyone to be empowered. We want people to, to do well. So we often focus on leadership. We often focus on individualism. We focus on making sure that you have a voice and that is important.

That is key. But what I also want to make clear with something like this is it doesn’t have to be a problem if you are a worker bee. It’s not necessarily a bad thing. The other example I was going to give, which is very similar is, oh, I can’t believe I’m, is the New England Patriots. It was known that Bill Belichick during film study would, you know, pick on Tom Brady.

As much as anybody else, when there was a mistake on the field, he wasn’t given special treatment, he wasn’t always made to be the biggest hero. And yet, because he understood I have a place on this team and even though I’m incredibly vital. I don’t always have to show it that way. So with the relationship, when you have, and it, and it definitely shows throughout the comics and the other forms of media for Scarface, this could easily be laughed at if you had someone like this, a wooden puppet doling out demands and, and very dangerous and vicious things to underlings, they could just as easily walk away.

And in theory, if you get rid of the puppet and you just see. Arnold Wesker standing there. It’s like, yeah this isn’t going to work. And yet because of Wesker’s buy in, whether intentional or not, as part of an illness, it means that you get a lot of gangsters that pretty much go along with what he says.

That is an incredible feat. That’s almost magic. I’m not saying that even in the, in the fantastical sense, I’m saying that’s, that’s what we as a society do all the time. That’s what delegation is. That’s what organizations are. It’s the idea that you’re willing to say, my opinion, although it matters, and although I have enough self esteem to recognize that I am important, I am willing to listen to somebody else and take maybe initially, instantly gratifying for me, and putting that to the side for the sake of other people.

And I’m saying all this as a positive. Obviously, there are negatives to it. What happens when it becomes learned helplessness? The idea that you have no control and no say, and your actions don’t appear to matter. That’s taking it to the extreme. That’s taking it to a negative. And that’s when you look at the relationship with Wesker and Scarface.

That’s where it’s a problem. Because it seems like Wesker has forgotten to put the original voice behind it to say, yes, I’m doing it this way because it’s effective because I’m a mastermind. In theory, I’m, I’m a criminal genius, but it never comes out that way. It literally all comes through Scarface. So that’s not great.

Then again, being a criminal mastermind isn’t great. That’s not my point. I’m just saying there’s a difference between saying I’m willing to sacrifice for the greater good versus. I have no say because I’m no good myself.

Anthony: Yeah, and I do want to just touch on the whole notion that the other gangsters kind of, shall we say for lack of a better term, fall in line behind Scarface being the one to give orders.

Because these mooks aren’t exactly the brainiest and the mindset in that. Culture, and I’m not going to go too much into my family history, but I have some distant connections to some folks that may or may not have done some time. It is very much a loyalty based culture, as well as a situation where you don’t want to be the one to stick your head up because it’s a tall poppy syndrome, absolutely applies.

With this kind of, of culture. So these, these random lower level enforcers are not really going to stand up and go, is this guy giving orders through a puppet? They may talk to each other, but nobody’s going to say squat to Wesker or Scarface. Because we’ve already seen in the comics, what happens if you do, you end up dead.

So they’re like, you know what? I’m good. I’m just going to keep my mouth shut, do the jobs, and I’ll worry about Batman kicking my ass before I worry about getting shot by a puppet. I think that’s honestly the bigger concern, that they’re, they’re like, you know what? I would rather get my ass kicked by the Dark Knight than get killed by a wooden dummy because you ain’t living that down.

That’s going to be your legacy. What happened to Vinny? Oh, he got shot by Scarface for mouthing off. What a dumbass. All right, let’s go, you know, let’s go rob this jewelry store and get the money back to the boss. Like this is, this is where their brains operate. This is the level of thinking that they’re at.

So they’re not going to push back on this at all. So the third issue is masochism. Now doc, you put this one in again, I confess I haven’t read too many Scarface Ventriloquist stories, so I’m really going to let you kind of expound on this, but I’m very curious to see where you go. with masochism by a puppet.

Doc Issues: So I want to make this clear. This isn’t necessarily for Scarface and it is beyond a stretch for ventriloquist, but it’s a topic that I think is worthy of bringing up in this context. And you do know this, Anthony, how does Scarface talk to Wesker? I want you to answer that. How does Scarface talk to Wesker?

Anthony: Very rudely. Very, yeah. You know, ordering him around, telling him, shut up, I’m the boss. You do what I say, keep your mouth shut, et cetera, et cetera. And.

Has Wesker retaliated against Scarface? Oh, hell no.

Doc Issues: This goes right back to the original point of dissociation, depersonalization, derealization. Human nature dictates that if you are in an abusive relationship, you have a few options. If you don’t have the means to leave the relationship, then you better figure out how to survive it. So, you have your thoughts, you have your actions, you have your emotions.

You can think negative thoughts about the abuser and have no negative consequence come to you, so that’s one way to cope. I don’t have evidence that Wesker thinks negatively of Scarface from what I’ve read. And you don’t give someone in your own mind carte blanche to do what they want at this level if you don’t have a comfort with it.

If you have the means, you leave an abusive relationship or you fight back. And I’m not claiming that one is better than the other, obviously physical harm and things like that. I don’t advocate that. So leaving would be the thing to do. From the outside looking in, take the puppet off. You can leave, you can do other things.

That’s Wesker’s choice. I’m not saying, let me make this clear. I am not saying that it’s a flippant choice, but it is a choice. Wesker continues with this dynamic, despite having the physical ability to. Eliminate it completely.

So then there’s the emotional side to this. Wesker is a usually portrayed as timid, meek, anxious, fearful. But sometimes stoic.

So no, I can’t say that it’s true masochism, that he’s enjoying this. I’m saying it’s a challenge to figure out then if his needs are being met by the criminal gains, if he has a level of power from someone doing all of this, he shows no outward emotion towards any of the events that are happening because he has to disconnect in some way, but is still willing to put the energy forth to hold this thing.

Literally in his hands so that it could continue ad infinitum.

My hypothesis is that there is some sort of benefit, some sort of joy in it. Does it reach the level of masochism? Maybe not, probably not even, but it’s still an interesting topic. And sometimes you just got to put yourself out on, you know, out on a limb. So I was willing to do that because I didn’t see much else.

Interesting. What am I going to do? I’m going to talk about Batman again. Come on.

Anthony: Fair enough. I think we’ve talked about Bruce at length. I mean, hell, we had an entire month devoted to him. You can go back and listen to those episodes. Okay. Okay. I mean, it’s, it’s interesting because I referenced earlier that when Wesker is institutionalized or he’s, he’s arrested, they take Scarface away.

And so when Wesker gets out and he’s replaced with Socko, and then when he does find Scarface, now he’s got one on each hand and they shoot each other. And Wesker. damages his own hands for the purpose of maintaining the realism or I’m not entirely certain what would lead to that level of to go back to the first issue depersonalization and dissociation with that but to be able to shoot yourself each puppet has a gun and then you shoot the puppets shoot each other but you’re actually putting the bullets through your own hands and only then does it Trigger, no pun intended with Wesker that, oh, jeez, I just shot myself twice.

Doc Issues: Yeah. I don’t want to make it sound like it’s joy, but it’s, it’s the idea that this is the way that I’m going to continue with reality as I see fit.

Anthony: Okay. Okay. That’s fair. Well, in any case, we’re going to take a break. We’re going to plug a couple of shows and when we get back, we will get into treatment, so stay tuned.

And we’re back. So it’s time for treatment.

So starting first with in universe treatment, what is your recommendation for Mr. Wesker and his associate?

Doc Issues: So I’m going to take the opportunity to be a bit of a troll here. And I, I take the lead from the animated series. What am I talking about? So there was a code, especially within that. afternoon cartoon block where yes, it’s a violent show, but you don’t really get heavy on blood and gore and all that stuff.

But with a wooden puppet, they went whole hog. You see Scarface gets shot up. In one show, not, not the original anime series, I don’t think, but the point is in, in one of them, he gets like, Literally like ground up into sawdust, things like that. I mean, I’m just talking like they go to town. Cause I feel like the writers and the animators probably just, you know, we could do this great.

Let’s, let’s take all of our frustrations out on, on Scarface.

Anthony: They definitely did say, because I did read somewhere that the animators were aware and they were able to run it through network standards and practices that because he’s a dummy, because he’s made of wood, you can do stuff to him that you couldn’t do to other characters.

You can’t put the Joker through a wood chipper, you can’t put Killer Croc through a wood chipper, but you can do that to Scarface because he’s a dummy.

Doc Issues: So, I don’t do that myself, and I’m a psychiatrist, I don’t advocate that. I think that Scarface needs to be treated. Now I can prescribe things to Scarface and so I can give pills.

It just so happens the types of pills that I give, they might be interesting. They, I’d have to make some of them opaque so we can’t see the termites inside. You know, I might give some that kind of cause wood rot, you know, fungi, you know, different spores. I, I might, you know. Give like a larvae that becomes a tapping beetle that produces a knocking sound.

So the next session he has a headache and doesn’t know where it’s coming from. You know, just, just the types of things that are twofold. One, obviously it damages the, the dummy, but also it actually has a physical effect, and if it gets to the point that it can’t manually function, it leaves Less to go on outside of himself.

And he has to start confronting the fact that this thing, this, this avatar that you’ve created is starting to fall apart. And yes, in theory, he can just create another one, but if he’s in sessions with me, I can kind of put his feet to the flames. And then if that doesn’t work, I can put Scarface’s feet to the flames.

Anthony: I saw that coming. I saw that. You know, Oh, I’m going to put his feet to the flames. And then I was like, and he’s going to set the dummy on fire. Okay. So out of universe for lack of a better term, this is very much. Operating within the realm of reality. Oh, there’s no powers here. Oh yeah. I mean, unless you, you kind of are of the mindset that the dummy might be possessed. No, no, otherwise this is very real.

Doc Issues: Yeah. Forget that. I mean, I deal with plenty of patients that have significant trauma and even if they don’t qualify for dissociative identity disorder, plenty of them qualify for bipolar disorder, major depression, PTSD intermittent explosive disorder. So yeah, this is very common.

And the few things to go over are, of course, what are the triggers? Because hopefully the person isn’t permanently in these states. If that’s the case, then you need to know what the environments are. Does the environment still exist that is going to repeatedly put this person in this state or contribute, I should say, because it’s a fallacy to say that a single environment or person is responsible for everything that.

A patient does, that’s not fair to any one person. And you want to have the patient be more empowered. That’s part of what’s happened. They, they, the person themselves doesn’t feel like they have control of things. So that’s why they hand it over to something or someone else. And obviously as a therapist, we have to be very careful with, with how we manage that responsibility.

But you, you do your best to help the patient acknowledge. Like this was a survival mechanism and I’m glad that you survived. But what do we do now? You need to, in a way it’s, it’s almost as if you have to have a going away party. I’m exaggerating of course, but it’s, you know, you’re saying, look, thank you for everything that you’ve done.

Thank you for this coping skill. Allow me to keep breathing, but I don’t need you right now. You know, maybe I’ll call on you when I do need you, but I don’t need you in the moment. I don’t need you to cause this anxiety. I don’t need you to call these panic attacks or depression or suicidality or all these other things.

That may be disrupting life right now. Obviously, depending on what the other constellations of symptoms are, this is in conjunction with medication management. But recognizing that the person may not always acknowledge that what you’re doing is meant to be beneficial because it’s also scary, you’re, you’re potentially taking away a coping mechanism.

And the point is, no, not taking it away. We are. Making it subordinate. We are actually giving you control now. So no, I’m not saying this is one of those ridiculous media tropes of like, okay, so whenever you get mad, you, I know the Hulk is the example is, but you could just pull out this other persona or whatever.

Like, no, not that nonsense. Just the idea that whoever you are and who you want to be, that can be the thing that’s in control now, and we’ll look to show you how, okay.

Anthony: Okay. That’s an interesting take. Because as I was going to the out of universe, I was like, Oh, actually there’s no powers here. This is a rare case where it could just as easily. Be the same for both, but I like that you differentiated just to give it a little bit of flavor.

Doc Issues: Yeah, well, I mean, okay, you know what, this is a great opportunity. So let’s say somebody has a surrogate, let’s say they always carry a blanket with them, or they have a stuffed animal, or they have something else that’s always with them.

It depends on, is that something that even needs to be treated? If someone, for example, carries a three foot, 10 pound teddy bear everywhere they go. And so it just disrupts. What’s going on in, in modern life. Like you can’t always do that. Like, okay, maybe the idea is let’s, I don’t want to say marginalized, but you do get to some desensitization, like, all right, instead of a gigantic teddy bear, how about we stick with like a handheld teddy bear?

And then after that, how about we give you a bracelet with a teddy bear logo on it? And how about after that, if you wear a regular shirt, but it has a teddy bear sticker on it? And, you know, you get to the point where they don’t even need it at all. And they could just think, you know, I remember Teddy and that’s all I need.

You know, like ultimately you can, you can do things like that as well. Much more, I mean, almost true Skinner behavioral stuff, but that’s usually not the thing that is important as, as important as the underlying emotional responses and thought processes behind them. That’s, that’s why I went the way I went.

Anthony: Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Well, I know we don’t often do group sessions, but let’s see what happens when we get Ventriloquist and Scarface on Dr. Issues couch.

• DOC: Hello Mr. Wesker, I’m Dr. Issues.
• SCARFACE: Nope, you’re talking to ME, doc. Leave the dummy outta this.
• WESKER: W-w-well at least l-l-let me say h-h-hello f-first.
• SCARFACE: Shut yer yap and lemme do the talking. The less you talk, the faster we can greak outta here and get gack to gusiness.
• DOC: I love Vaudeville as much as anybody, but
• SCARFACE: *interrupting* that explains your practice
• DOC: Hey! This is a serious establishment. Are you going to talk to me or not?
• WESKER: I-I-I
• SCARFACE: Aye Aye Aye is right! Sheesh! You gonna take the hint, shrinkydink? This mug is useless without me. I’m the grains of this operation. That’s how I keep making gread.
• DOC: *flustered* Fine. Tell me, what can I do for you?
• SCARFACE: Can you crack safes?
• DOC: No
• SCARFACE: Can you crack heads?
• DOC: NO!
• SCARFACE: Knockaround guy? Gagman?
• DOC: No and No
• SCARFACE: Is your office a good place to do laundry, if ya catch my drift?
• DOC: I’m not doing anything illegal for you!
• SCARFACE: Then you’re a waste of space like this guy over here!
• DOC: He is the reason you can talk at all!
• SCARFACE: waaaaatch your mouth, you’re on thin ice, capiche?
• DOC: Mr. Wesker, are you going to stand for this?
• SCARFACE: He doesn’t have to, that’s why he’s sittin down. And you’re gonna be layin down for a dirt nap if you don’t keep your eyes on me!
• DOC: You don’t have any weapons. That tommy gun is a toy. I’m not stupid.
• SCARFACE: My noggin is like taking a Louisville slugger to the jaw if you’re unprepared.
• DOC: If you’re so bright,have you figured out a way to resolve your anger without resorting to violence?
• SCARFACE: Resort? You darn right I resort. A hideout full of moola and the screams of my enemies make crime a vacation. 
• DOC: Is that what Wesker wants?
• SCARFACE: Who cares what he wants? 
• DOC: I do. And if this is you, Arnold, then I’m willing to work with you in this…unique arrangement.
• SCARFACE: I’m confused. Are you talking to me or to him?
• DOC: Yes.
• SCARFACE: *pause* Ooooh, you’re a slick one, aintcha? Gut there’s no one else you need to talk to. 
• DOC: Thank goodness. So, I’ll make sure I only direct my questions to you, and you’ll answer, and I’ll make sure it’s documented in your chart, under your name. Just spell it for me so I get it right.
• SCARFACE: S-C-A
• DOC: A-R-N
• SCARFACE: *screaming* THIS AIN’T A JOKE!
• DOC: I’m not laughing. I’m talking to you. I’m looking at you. I know you run the show, and I’m giving you the attention you deserve. If the other part is not important according to you, fine. But I won’t let your reality get in the way of mine.
• SCARFACE: YOU SICKO! Don’t toy with my emotions.
• DOC: Don’t use your emotions as toys
• WESKER: Please stop fighting
• DOC: who said that?
• SCARFACE: NOBODY! DUMMY, SHUT UP!
• WESKER: yes sir
• DOC: You seem to have an issue with a part of you that is intimidated. What do you plan to do to strengthen it? 
• SCARFACE: I’m not weak; that loser
• DOC:*interrupting* You’re a loser; got it.
• SCARFACE: I’m not here to be insulted!
• WESKER: You usually leave that to me
• DOC: Progress! Now if you could only get him to stop shoving his hand inside you to compensate, you wouldn’t be so uptight
• SCARFACE: *pause* wait…are you actually trying to treat me here?
• DOC: It wasn’t my first idea but if it’s the only way I can ultimately give you some peace and have fewer people hurt, I’ll make it work.
• SCARFACE: *exaggerated wistful sigh* Maybe I can finally get a world without Dummy. A mafioso can dream.
• DOC: Um…erm…something like that. Anyway, I noticed that I didn’t get my usual fee before the session, so I’m going to have to bill you for the balance.
• SCARFACE: *deadpan* Oh…Dummy takes care of that 
• WESKER: I DO NOT
• DOC: WHAT?
• SCARFACE: I MEANT THE CHECK’S IN THE MAIL. Now get me outta here before he makes me talk about my mother. *fake sob* I really miss her.
• DOC: Pining?
• SCARFACE: No, oak.

Love the ending. That’s just, it’s perfect.

Doc Issues: Hey, once in a while, inspiration hits me.

Anthony: Now, do you have to? Does your office smell like Pledge or is it more of a Pine Sol? What the…

Doc Issues: Yeah. Yeah. I’d like to think that, you’re underselling the smoky flavor that I can get depending on how high the heat is.

Anthony: Okay. All right. That’s, that’s fair. You know, I’m thinking you know, probably some good a good smoker.

Yeah. Yeah. Get a nice brisket on there. Maybe smoke it for a couple hours now. Now I’m making me hungry. So recommended reading is Batman broken city by Brian Azarello and Eduardo Russo. It’s obviously it’s a Batman story. Doc picked it because ventriloquist gets a lot to do here in the story. It’s not entirely ventriloquist centered, but he plays a pretty solid role in it.

So it’s not one that I’ve read, but I do enjoy Azarello’s. I really liked his, his Wonder Woman stories that he did with Cliff Chang on that volume. So, good stuff. So, upcoming episodes Bigby Wolf, Eobard Thawne, and Speedbald, or Penance, depending on when you started reading him. Robbie Baldwin is, whatever name you know him by, we’re, we’re talking Robbie Baldwin.

So as always, you can find all of our episodes on our website, capes on the couch. com with all of the additional material that we have there. We’ll be doing a quite a bit of social media posting for this one. As I said, I already have an idea involving Mick Foley for a Tik Tok video. And we’ll get doc back to blogging on this one.

He missed Sinister one.

Doc Issues: Yeah, I thought I had an idea out of hand. Well, I thought I had something for Sinister and it just ended up being this like Pardon my language is cheap ass listicle that I’m like, I don’t feel comfortable doing this. So I’ll only give you the quality that I, I know I can do.

Anthony: That’s fine. And we only want the quality from you. We don’t want you to just slap something together just to say, okay, you know. You fit fit a deadline.

Doc Issues: Oh, believe me. I already have what I, what I want with with ventriloquist. This is going to be fun.

Anthony: Okay. Looking forward to it. Can’t wait to read it.

So you can check that out. That will be posted on our website. capesonthecouch.Com and the rest of the social media pages Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Tik TOK and threads. All at capes on the couch. I refuse to call it x. It’s it’s twitter and it will be twitter until The day I die,

Doc Issues: even elon is called it twitter

Anthony: Yeah, anyway you can also find all of our stuff over at the gonna geek network website gonna geek network.

com We’re proud members of that network. So go and check that out I will also be doing some guest analysis of loki season two Over on Legends of Shield. So I got to talk to SP about that coming coming up very soon, but you’ll be able to hear me over there. So that’s just about going to wrap it up for us on this episode.

Again, reminder Sunday, October 22nd, 11am Puchikon Poconos. We’re going to be talking Spike Spiegel from Cowboy Bebop. So go to Poochacon. com and get your tickets there. If you are in the tri state area, it’s going to be a fun panel and a really interesting. I was just talking to Doc before we started recording that you know, I, I would like to cosplay at some point, maybe perhaps I was thinking Mad, Mad Piero.

I don’t know if I’m going to show up to the panel in a cosplay. I did think about it for Vash. But that one would require a very expensive red duster and all the, the stuff I, I think some of these other characters I can get away with a little, a little cheaper. Yeah.

Doc Issues: Because, yeah, because for Trigon, I actually was thinking wolfwood, but then I realized that was too big across the bear.

Anthony: Oh, right. We’re just going to end it right there then. No, we’re not. Oh, no. Oh, no, we’re not. Oh, okay. Well, you’ve got something lined up then for, for ventriloquist. Okay. So doc, hit us with another

Doc Issues: plan. Come on. This is an easy one. I mean, if someone says, say hello to your little friend, like just be careful.

Don’t be a dummy and look at their wood.

Anthony: That could be embarrassing for all parties involved. I mean,

Doc Issues: seriously, it would take the words right out of your mouth

Anthony: for doc issues. I’m Anthony Sytko. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you in two weeks.