Anthony: Hey everybody, Anthony here. This is our season 10 finale. This is a panel that I recorded recently at Black Comic Con in Jersey City, New Jersey alongside Tim Stuckey of Studio 66 Media. He is a fellow podcaster and he was just really cool to talk to like he’s he’s an artist. He’s got some real incredible stories and it was a fantastic and fascinating discussion and I spoke to Tim afterwards about Some kind of crossover.
So stay tuned to see what comes of that. This one was kind of an interesting situation. And I talk about it briefly in the beginning of the episode about how I ended up being a panelist at a black comic convention which is an interesting situation to be in as, as a white guy especially given some of the topics that were discussed within the episode.
And if you happen to follow us on threads, you will see a kind of humorous story about all of that. So you can go and check that out. That one went viral, at least relative to our usual engagement and, and views and impressions and activity that it got. So it was interesting that that was the one that kind of really blew up for us.
Also, speaking of the episode, I want to apologize for the audio quality. I recorded it using our regular handheld mic. And if you listen to the Baccano panel from the week before, that one sounds pretty good. But unfortunately, we didn’t have a table or anything for me to put the microphone on. So I had to leave it on the floor of the stage in front of myself and Tim.
So I did my best to clean things up so you understood what we were saying, but again, I just, I apologize if it sounds a little muffled at times. I tried to. You know, clean up and remove as much of the background noise as I could. So this is our season finale. Very bittersweet, but again, Doc and I just, we were fried and we reached the importance of mental health all the time on the show.
We would be incredibly hypocritical if we didn’t take our own advice from time to time. So we are going to take a little bit of a break, catch our breath, and then we will be back in September with. New episodes, more creator interviews, and hopefully some cool new stuff on our website and or socials. And I do plan on, on using some of the time to think about the podcast and come up with other stuff for it.
And again, I know I sound like a broken record when I say this, but it’s because we love the show. We truly do. We love working on it. We love producing it. We love interacting with everybody. We love our community. We have fantastic fans. It’s just, it’s a lot with everything else we’ve got going on individually, collectively, and then Honestly, just so much everything else going on in the world, you know, so in light of that, please take care of yourself, take care of each other and keep that moving forward through the summer.
And remember that we say all the time on the show, you are not alone and help us out there. And in the words of our late friend Kate from Ignorance is Bliss, you matter. So please keep that in mind and we can’t wait. For everybody to return when we return in September. In the meantime, this is the Black Comic Con panel presented at Jersey City.
Enjoy, and we will see you very soon.
Alvin Pettit: I just want to officially get started here, and so both for coming. And it was a great event, love having you both here, you both do podcasting, so what I want to start with is maybe an official introduction from both of you, I know you’ve been talking about it, you know, I would say it’s probably heard of you, overheard you, whatever.
But what your podcasts are about and what your subject matter is, and then we’ll go into a line of questions that can kind of be something that, you know, each one of you, personally, but also just with podcasting in general. How you use the medium to influence and to make a difference in your field.
So, we’ll start
Tim Stuckey: with
Alvin Pettit: you, Tim.
Tim Stuckey: Sure. I was, I was like, I’m sorry. Nope. I’m closer to you. And I was going to flip. Yes. Hello, everyone. My name is Tim Stuckey. Well, to get a little understanding of me, I’m born and raised in Jersey City. I work for New Jersey University for the art department there. I’m also a former, I bring this up once in a while, I am a former Board of Education member.
I served back in 1963 to 1999, so that may give a little bit of my age away. My, my whole focus has always been education and through education teach people as it helped me. My podcast that I have is really just telling my stories. My collector stories are my short stories from a sci fi base. Like if you take the, you know, everyone from, well, everyone in my age group know the Twilight Zone.
So, it’s more of reading it and through it. Hopefully, the stories are focused on narratives that help people think. They have a Afrocentric tone to it. You know, three podcasts I have up so far, and you’ll definitely find it for those who have my business card or website card. You’ll find it where one focuses on speaks to the divide that exists near future.
I try to make it in the future. One talks about from a spiritual standpoint, all of them are spiritually rooted, and all of them are from a creative standpoint. So, not too long. About 20 some odd, 30 minutes, but all the, all the podcasts I try to release on my website, everything is about focusing to help people see something more positive than what they’re seeing all around.
We’re, we’re right now currently, and I’m not going to take up much time to do what, you know this good gentleman speak. Too much negativity is a sixth of the map for us. I grew up in a time when it wasn’t a whole lot of negativity. It wasn’t a lot of frustration, anger. So hopefully I’m trying to put positive stuff out there to remind people to be positive.
You draw positivity. Negative, you’re going to get negativity. So that’s what I hope to accomplish with the work that I’m
Anthony: doing. Okay. So so hello everybody. My name is Anthony Sytko. I am a co host of a podcast called Capes on the Couch. The subtitle to that podcast is Where Comics Get Counseling.
And my best friend and co host of he and I’ve been best friends since we were 13. He is a board certified psychiatrist and the purpose of the show is to destigmatize discussions around mental health using comic book characters as a way to introduce some of these discussions and say that if, if these characters have these various neuroses, they have mental illness, they have struggles, they have trauma, whatever the case may be and they can still manage to fight through it and overcome it.
How can we use their examples to help real people with some of the stuff that they’re going through? So we’ve been going doing that for six and a half years. And we’ve got about 200 or so episodes out. We interview creators. We talk about the ways that they incorporate some of their trauma and their learned experiences and lived experiences and their personal stories through their art.
And, again, it’s just all about breaking down those barriers and, and Not making it so taboo to talk about some of the issues that we all face individually and collectively as a society. Because, you know, if you have cancer, nobody’s going to shame you for going to an oncologist. If you have a broken leg, nobody’s going to shame you for going to the ER.
If you have depression, if you have anxiety, if you have schizophrenia, whatever the case may be, there are still segments of the population That will say, Oh, well, you know, just if you’re depressed, everybody gets depressed. You can get over it. Everybody’s anxious about something that’s not a big deal. And there’s this tendency to downplay things or to, or to shy away from those discussions.
And we say, no, that’s, that’s not valid. That’s not fair because those those situations and those, those things that you’re going through are just as valid as cancer or a broken leg or, or, you know, physical illness. And so we, We use the podcast, we use these fictional examples to discuss the ways in which these real these real issues affect the people on a day to day basis.
So, and I’ve been you know, very gracious of of Alvin to put this event together thanks to Alvin and the fantastic staff here at the Bethune Center. I just, I kind of backed into this. I came here a couple weeks ago to talk to Alvin about a completely unrelated work event, and he was like, Oh, I’m hosting this Black Comic Con, and one thing led to another.
And my co host is black. He couldn’t be here. He’s the mental health expert. So I don’t want to make it seem like, you know, I’m not trying to colonize anything. Or I’m not trying to Or you’re like, why is this white guy on the stage when it’s Black Comic Con? I am aware of that, so that’s why I’m taking a step back.
Oh, no, no, no, no.
Tim Stuckey: I did, I did, I did tell him the story. Speak from sincerity. As long as he does that, be all right. Yes. Yes. As long as you’re genuine in your presentation, you’re good.
Anthony: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I, I was I cringe a little bit when I hear people say, Oh, you know, I can’t be racist. My best friend is black.
And I do tell them not to go that route, but you’re doing great. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. So so I guess I’ll, I’ll turn it over to Alvin to, you know, kind of lead the discussion with the questions.
Alvin Pettit: Thanks guys, thanks for coming. Both very interesting thanks that you’re here. I’m going to start with you, Anthony.
And I’m going to pick I thought about this after our conversations, our crash conversations we’ve been having. I’m going to pick three characters that, that I’m going to pick. Mostly talking to everybody, I hope you all know. And I’d like you to give me an example of, if they were on the couch in a live setting, what would they be diagnosed as, and what would their disorders be, and how would you, in a sense, or how would they be helped professionally?
We are Frank Castle with Punisher, okay? Moon Knight, and North Star.
Anthony: Okay alright, well Well, I suppose it’s, it’s fortunate then that we, we happen to have done episodes on all three of those characters on our show. So, that kinda helps a little bit, and I’m trying to remember specifically. So, I will start, I’ll start with Moon Knight probably because I am one of the biggest Moon Knight fans probably in the world, or at least certainly in, in my circle.
Um, there’s, there’s not many of us, there’s not many of us diehard Moon Knight fans, but, but we do exist. So Moon Knight’s first thing, very clearly, is dissociative identity disorder and that has been portrayed, unfortunately, in a very unrealistic fashion historically speaking, in, in the comics.
Moon Knight, for those of you that, that may be unaware he’s a Marvel character created in 1975, and his whole thing is that he’s, his real name is Marc Spector, but he also has these other identities, as they’re referred to in the books, or, or personalities which is, is you know, incorrect from a, from a technical standpoint.
But Jake Lockley and Stephen Grant, and then also the, the persona of Moon Knight who goes out and, and fights crime. And, again, historically, it was always shown as just, oh, he goes from Mark to Stephen to Jake to Moon Knight, and he just kind of switches them back and forth like he’s taking off hats.
And that is in no way, shape or form the way that DID is a actually dealt with by, by the people that have it. As far as those people that are, have been clinically diagnosed to have DID alters and, and the way that their brains are wired is, is rooted in trauma. And so very often, DID and, and these alters are created because.
Your brain is so traumatized by an event that it decides in order to keep us safe, in order to keep us healthy, in order for us to survive, we have to create another person that has not undergone this trauma just so we can make it through the day. That’s, it’s, it’s an oversimplified version, but that’s what DID is, is at its root, is it’s rooted in trauma.
And so for somebody like. Moon Knight, who, again historically in the comics, and they’ve been doing a lot more over this over the past 10, 15 years on him. They’ve been rooting it in a lot, and, and showing that trauma more realistically, and, and explaining why, why these these altars exist.
You, you really have to delve into the root of the trauma. And there, there may be medication involved. It’s going to be a lot of, of discussion. And it’s not about. You’re not trying to cure the DID, because you can’t cure these mental illnesses. And we really, on the show, and just in general, we try and shy away from that terminology of cure.
But you try and help them cope with it. So for somebody like Moon Knight, I would say the first thing is getting to the root of the trauma, identifying the source of it, and then figuring out a way for him and his alters to accept the trauma and accept the trauma. They’re coexistence. You want the alters to coexist as as cleanly as possible.
So that would be, that would be the first thing. For somebody like a Frank Castle, the Punisher here’s a guy, you know, former soldier and obviously dealt with a lot while he was serving in the armed forces, comes home, has a wife and family. They are they’re assassinated by, by the mafia. And so that is his his triggering trauma.
That he chooses to turn around and say, you know, Nobody’s going after these people. You know, they got away with killing my wife and kids. I’m going to purge New York City. I’m going to purge the world of this evil. And his mentality is very much black and white. That it is, it’s, there’s no nuance there.
It’s, you’re doing bad things, And I’m going, I’m going to kill you so that you can’t hurt anybody else. There’s no opportunity for the people that, that Frank deals with to get any sort of redemption because Frank feels that because he suffered the ultimate loss and he can’t get his family back, he then takes that and, and projects that trauma onto everybody else.
So he deals with that in a very unhealthy way. So for Frank, what we talked about was trying to Get him to acknowledge the trauma that he dealt with, the experiences that he had and understanding that nothing that he does, he can kill all the bad guys in the world, it’s not going to bring his wife and kids back.
Nothing he does is going to unring that bell. And you get to the root of that and you get him to deal with that anger and that trauma in a healthier way. So that’s, that’s number two for somebody like Northstar. North Star Jean Paul Beaubier Canadian character member of Alpha Flight in, in the comics.
And gosh, I’m trying to remember. A lot of what, what he dealt with, honestly, was in the, in the 70s and 80s was homophobia. Because he was one of the first openly gay characters in comics. And he was dealing with a lot of external homophobia from other characters, from society in general. And so, obviously, you know.
We’re not trying to address his homosexuality that is, you know, inherent to who he is. What we discussed on the episode is getting him to deal with some of the external hatred that he deals with on a day to day basis and in a way to not internalize that homophobia that he endures and not turn around and have him channel that externally in a negative fashion.
So Again, just, you know, off the top of my head those, those are some of the, the characters that are, those are some of the ways that I think that we could, we could help address some of the issues that those characters deal with based on, again, my recollection of, of you know, the episodes that we’ve done.
Alvin Pettit: So next question is for you, Tim. So Tim basically your intro, you use the comic genre to basically Inspire positivity. And I would like for you to go into a little bit more detail as to, like, the nuts and bolts of actually how you do that. Like, relating to Like, relating specific comic book characters, specific storylines or whatever.
How do you use that to actually make a tangible impact on your audience?
Tim Stuckey: Like I said earlier A lot of it is trying to fashion data to some stories, because it is from an Afrocentric point of view that at least individuals who I know in my community can at least relate to or associate with, because sometimes there is a common thread that can cause, you know, some type of trauma or, or generation.
I call it personally, and again, I’m no expert, I’m just speaking from my experience, generational trauma, because until you understand that the trauma that African Americans go through, in many cases, is different from the trauma that Caucasian Americans go through, in a lot of ways, we can sit here and say, we will probably say in a lot of cases, our trauma is caused by.
Americans, which is not always the case, but in most of the cases are when we deal with that 400 over 400 years of trauma that’s been afflicted upon us. So it’s a certain level of homelessness that developed where we are coming up. Now, me personally, I have an experience in my young upbringing because When I saw creativity and working characters, I just saw it for a while.
That’s cool. That’s that. Only recently where I see more of it now, like it’s like the 50s and 60s and early 60s has come back in, in a strong way. So my work is more of to try to overcome it by saying, and again, I root my work in spiritual. You know, as a man, I try to focus that when you cling to God and focus, as you mentioned, you said about, you know, driving through, I use the term power.
You gotta power through these obstacles that’s in your way. Is it easy to do that? Of course not. But first, you have to recognize the fact that you have a purpose. So within my story, what I try to do is try to use my example. I went through a whole lot of trials and tribulations. I went through a whole lot of craziness.
You know. I went through surviving cancer. You know. Without operating. Because of just that rooted faith in my almighty father. For anyone that knows the story of Job. Three years ago, my story was the story of Job. In every single aspect, biblical. Where, wife leaves you when you get sick. You get sick, you go through all this, literally.
But what helped me to power through was that belief. That clinging to something, my creativity, my heart, kept me focused. Kept me from going over that edge. So I try to share with my podcast, with my website, positive images, positive things that people can go through and say, Wow, I haven’t seen that.
Because sometimes we get in so much imagery that is so negative and not uplifting like it was back in the day. It’s nothing not knocking the music of today but it’s not uplifting like it was listen to music back in the 60s and 70s. I had to upbeat feel to it. That’s what we call soul music. When you’re eating delicious food that was balanced, that’s what we call soul food.
We’ve got to return back to the things that enrich our soul, that benefit so many people. If you look at the story of Motown back in the day, and yes, I’m going off topic a little bit, just explain the power of creativity and the power of that. And that relies in art and creative and storytelling. I was watching a documentary where Berry Gordy would have the group go down south.
And then you have, you know, African American kids and Caucasian kids dance together, but there was this line coming up. They would dance on one side and the other. And some of them along the line, the guy said, we’re not going to come back down here. Or the Caucasian kid said, listen, we want to move this forward because we enjoy your jacket.
That’s the power of that music hat. That’s the power of creativity. That’s the power of it to bond people together until we all understand that there is familiar territory. So my podcast right now starting off is just sharing stories for people to listen to. Stories that are different from what we keep listening to every day.
The stories I grew up on that was positive in my life and enriched my life and made a difference, you know, and that’s what we’re trying to do.
Alvin Pettit: Kevin, I’m going to ask, and then we’ll go back to our Anthony review. I want to ask relating to comic books, like one, can you give an example? I’m going to take some more questions from the audience.
So one is an example of a character or a storyline. In Marvel, DC, Universe, whatever, it doesn’t matter, a comical character that you would have considered had maybe inspired you.
As far as what, like a positive feel or whatever.
Tim Stuckey: Oh no, you first. Oh, that was
Anthony: for
Tim Stuckey: me? Oh! So sorry. I thought you said Anthony. Sorry. I’m listening. Can I say anything? I thought you said Anthony, but I’m listening. I thought you
Anthony: said Tim then, Anthony.
Tim Stuckey: Oh no, maybe we can. Oh,
Anthony: I said Tim. Okay, okay.
Tim Stuckey: Well, I’m going to go with the very first character that inspired me to get into drawing, and that was Spider Man.
And I was joking with Anthony saying, yeah, my introduction was the animation. If anyone remembers that animation with the song that stuck in your head, Spider Man, Spider Man, back then. Yeah. That was because the character in the story was related. Yeah. He wasn’t like Superman, even though at that time I wasn’t thinking, you know, this is a Caucasian character, I can’t relate.
No, it felt a little closer to me than Batman being a millionaire and having a whole lot of money. I can’t relate to that being rich, you know. My father already told me when I jokingly said that we’re middle class, no, we’re poor. So I said, okay, thanks dad. But Peter Parker was one that was relatable because even though he didn’t live in Jersey City, he lived in Queens.
You know, he went through same issues and same problems trying to just cope and deal with, but he felt in coping, I still want to help you. And you know, I was raised, you know, by my family to help people, to be of service. So that’s the one thing, that character influenced me. Of course, there’s characters that come along that then you’re attached to, or characters of color, that you say, wow, this is a cool character.
But Spider Man had the most, you know, The first one to influence me on my path.
Alvin Pettit: I have a question. Oh, okay. I’m going to ask Anthony a question. So Anthony, the question I have for you is, out of your wide array of knowledge of comic book heroes or villains, which one do you feel you personally most relate to?
Anthony: Oh gosh. Is that villain? Is
Alvin Pettit: that villain or character? Hey, I
Anthony: don’t judge. So I, I joke, that there’s the characters that I, I, I always say there’s two characters. There’s the one, there’s one that I would like to be, and then there’s the one that I hope I don’t get to. You know, to, to that point. And, and the one that I hope that I, I don’t get to actually is Moon Knight.
And it’s, it’s because I think he’s, he’s such a fascinating character. You know, the, the imagery you know, from an artistic standpoint, I think he’s, he’s Just very, very well drawn. I actually cosplayed as Moon Knight a couple years ago at, at New York Comic Con. I got to meet a bunch of creators and take a whole bunch of photos with them.
So Moon Knight is, is always that, I try to live my life so I’m always doing better than he. You know, it’s kinda like the, the bar or at least the floor. And then as far as my ceiling the, the character that I, I hope to aspire to be and that’s, that’s Captain America.
Anthony: To the point that I have the Captain America shield tattooed on my shoulder blade. That was I got that when, when I turned 30 and I, I wanted to get a tattoo for a long time. And I finally decided on the shield because Captain America always does the right thing. He always fights for, you know, truth, justice, the American way, all of that, that good stuff.
I know that’s the Superman line, but it still applies to Steve. And I put the shield on my back and it’s on my left side, which is where my heart is. So I always have the shield on my back and, and it’s always protecting my heart because Steve fights for the American ideal. And I think that sometimes people misconstrue and they, they misunderstand Captain America and they, they view him as this, this jingoistic character this, this nationalistic character.
And that’s not who Steve Rogers is. That may have been Jeffrey Mace or, Walker or some of the other characters that have carried the mantle of Captain America, but that’s not who Steve Rogers is. And I thought the, the MCU version as portrayed by Chris Evans, does such an amazing job of walking that line of saying that he represents the best in us, and best in what we could be, and what we could aspire to be, without coming across as corny or, not relatable.
He fights for, for what is right regardless of who it is. He’s gonna fight for, you know, the ideals. And so, when I, go through my, my day to day existence, it’s always like, you know, How, how would Cap face this issue? How would, how would Steve deal with this? And then, you know, You know, try and, and meld that with my own background and my own personal lived experiences and, and hopefully just in the end do the right thing and, and then in turn inspire, you know, my kids and, and my personal circle of influence in the best way that I can.
And hopefully that kind of you know, Tim, you were saying about the, you know, spreading positivity and everything and, and just kind of that ripple effect that, that our, our own personal circles of influence you know. Are more powerful I think than we realize. So if I can lead by example by kind of being like Cap, being like Steve Rogers, then maybe that inspires somebody else to do the right thing, and then we all eventually You know, a rising tide lifts all boats.
Alvin Pettit: Just on the you brought up Captain America, just going back to what you knew, something you would possibly relate to the podcast. So Captain America, I would agree, is probably one of the most ideal you can get. Just as far as nobility and just honor. You know, he was able to lift the hammer, you know, so.
Yeah, he’s pretty good prop. I guess the only thing that would be comparable to him would be DC’s Superman. Now, I would say in both characters, one thing that’s just my opinion, They’re almost both very lonesome characters, in a way. I mean, if you look at Captain America, he’s a man out of time. So, in a sense, his trauma would almost be he’s, he’s living in a time that he never can truly relate to.
And he’s, especially the way the MCU portrays him you know, he never really has a soft love interest, except for the one he met in the 40s. Superman, in a sense, very noble, but in some ways, he’s going to outlive all the people he loves. And so, that power that he has is also, you know it’s curse in some ways cause, you know, he’s been invulnerable almost, I was, when I was a superman, I’m like, okay, I’ve always told myself, if you can’t feel a bullet, you feel a kiss, you know, and it almost like your, your, your strength almost becomes your greatest curse as well.
Now going back to how they betrayed him, the standard Captain America is basically what we’re talking about here. Now, the Ultimates kind of betrayed him more nationalistically. But that was kind of an off brand. But I, to my first, what I just said, I’d like to just relate to, like the loneliness of these two characters.
If you relate, relate to some sort of trauma, would you look at it like the way I just described it?
Anthony: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we, we’ve done an episode on, on Steve Rogers on the show. And we didn’t do Superman we haven’t done Superman largely because my, my co host we Actually said this at another panel we did last week.
He said he, he will never speak an ill word of Superman. He said, I’ll talk about, you know, all the issues that, that every other Superman adjacent character has all the live long day. He goes, I will never speak. You will never hear me speak an ill word of Superman. So to that end, I don’t know that we’re ever going to do an episode on, on Supes, but for, for Steve, we did talk about that loneliness.
And we talked about that trauma and, and being out of time and. The, the notion that, he’s always fighting for, for something that I don’t know if he thinks it’s ever going to arrive, but he is the personification of hope. You know, very, very much that ideal in, in the Marvel Universe, whether it’s, it’s in the comics or in the MCU.
And That, that can definitely be a lonely struggle because so many of us, we all have hope in various degrees and we like to think that it tries to carry us through through the tough times, but we’ve all dealt with situations where no matter how much, no matter how optimistic we try to be, it’s, we know it’s not going to happen or it’s not going to happen in the way that we want it to.
And when that optimism hits that tough time, Cold dash of reality. How do you cope with that? You know, and, and for somebody like Steve, who I think deals with that on a day to day basis, it’s, it’s a recurring thing. You know, it’s, it’s a wound that never gets to heal. And so, you know, Tim, you were talking earlier about the generational trauma.
That’s something You know, I’m not certainly equating what Cap has gone through to anything of the black struggle, certainly, but it is a wound that doesn’t get to heal. It is, in that regard, there is a similarity there, that it’s something that you’re dealing with on a day to day basis, and it never, never really hits that closure.
But you still have that optimism, you still have that, that hope, and that if you put that ideal out there, if you put that positivity out there, hopefully it continues to inspire, and eventually, I forget, I’m going to butcher the line a bit, but it’s, you’re planting seeds for a tree that you’re never going to get to sit under that hopefully down the line, it will get better for, for the next generation or for, for the generations after that.
So I think that’s something that, that Steve deals with on a, daily basis and it’s a credit to his strength. Both internal, you know, physical and emotional and mental that he’s able to continue going forward through all of that in spite of everything that he deals with. So yeah, I was going to say you look like you had something you wanted to add on
Tim Stuckey: to that.
No, no, no. First ask the question because I want to add something to the Spider Man.
Alvin Pettit: Okay, I can ask you, yeah, give me your statement. I just want to give you my question. Sure, please. So my question to you, Tim since we’re on the topic of a Captain America sort of figure I want to turn it to his black counterpart, Elijah, and you and I were talking about this the other day Anthony.
And I want to point out, almost when you talk about positivity, your podcast seems to be more focused, obviously, on race relations and your personal experiences as an African American in this country. So, the way I look at, almost, these very noble characters, whether it be Superman, or Whether it be Captain America we’re talking about, or you can even say Batman.
They tend to fight villains that never affect almost everyday people and everyday problems. A lot of it is, for all their nobility in the comics, they almost were, each of them, oblivious to the struggles of, Race inequality. Racism. You know, people getting murdered even at the time that they were at.
And obviously, we’re talking about the writers, we’re talking about the institute, so it’s not the characters. But, how did you look at that, even as an African American? You know, Batman’s fighting the Joker, he’s fighting the Mad Hatter, he’s fighting the Penguin. None of these are actually robberies on the streets.
I think the only time I saw that tackled was Oversized Graphic Novel by Alex Ross. Where Batman and Bruce Wayne actually used his money to fight some crime actually in the hood or in the African American communities. But that was, that was like an anomaly. That was something that was never touched on.
So I’d like to maybe just speak to that and how, even though these characters are perfect, they almost are in a sense oblivious to the common people. Yeah,
Tim Stuckey: We’re comics, it all depends on if you refer to we’ll say DC. Right. It’s like different ages of it. You say the Golden Age, you say the Silver Age, right?
Then, I dub it the Awareness Age. Where the Silver Age came up with the whole camp of characters and they really didn’t focus on social issue or commentary. When Marvel came along, when it got to the 70s, they started focusing on more social commentary. Um, than anything else, I think the first book was Spider Man, but before that, it was a commentary on the drug issue that was happening during the 70s.
Where Speedy Roy Harper was, you know, the Green Arrow in the comics, discovered that his sidekick was hooked on drugs. First time that was revolutionized. And that was brilliantly written by, if anyone Denny, Denny O’Neill. Who wrote it. And in that commentary, because, you know, I’m a big fan of Denny O’Neill.
Because people always credit Frank Miller. And Dark Knight Returns for making it. Batman Relevant, but it was Denny O’Neill and Neal Adams that did it first. Um, they created Jon Stewart, the Black Green, the Green Lantern. But there was, and that’s the power of the social Indian consciousness. Again, great cosplay, my friend, so we talk about that.
The thing that was poignant was, is to me, one of the best lines in Comic book history. And you probably know where I’m going with that. You probably know where I’m going with that too. There was a line where they did Green Arrow, Green Lantern and Green Arrow book. And Green Arrow is space. You know, taking care of space and all of that.
And Green Arrow was always down to earth. They’ve written him where he was for the common man. He lost all his money, and I’m like, I’m going to help the common people. I want to So there was this line where it was an African American elderly man that was with a green arrow, a green lantern was there. And the man said to the green lantern, I hear you help the purple people and you help the, oh I forgot the other color.
The blue people. No, you work for the blue people. But I never hear you help the brown people. And, and then Green Arrow didn’t say anything, but Green Lantern said, Yeah, you’re right. And he hung his head down because he was right. You know, we have all these heroes. If we, in the comics, if we have all these heroes, we shouldn’t have these social issues.
That was always my thought when I’m reading comics. And again, my favorite books later on was the X Men, Teen Titans, Britain, all of them. During the eighties, but we shouldn’t have these problems. So why is it not spoken? That’s why I do not speak to that, you know, true heroism. But with that, I printed that out and I have it on the wall in my office.
So when students come in, they look at that line because I’m like, yeah, be conscious of that as you write your stories. So going back and just jumping a little bit on Spider Man, Spider Man talked about the drug issue too, not as effectively. As Denny O’Neill did, as Stan Lee wrote it. But the one thing I just want to point out, and again I’m not going to say anything bad about Captain America and I know his idea.
But when you think of Spider Man being a relatable character, but the most tragic character. If you ever want to really talk about a character that had to overcome so many tragic things in his life. I can’t even think about, and if someone can help me, think about a character that’s more tragic than Peter Parker.
He lost his uncle, got shot and killed. That made him won’t become who he was. He lost one of his mentors, you know, police captain. He got shot and killed. Even though she, she’s back in the movies and the comics, but there was a period there where he lost Grand Stacy, snapped her neck, tried to save her. How much poor trauma can someone go through?
I
Alvin Pettit: don’t think he killed her, because basically with him, it was that he could have saved his uncle. It’s like Batman lost hope for his parents when he was a kid, so his was trauma, but at least he didn’t feel like he could have stopped it. Parker thought he could have stopped it.
Tim Stuckey: If he wasn’t selfish.
Alvin Pettit: Yes.
And he was
Tim Stuckey: poor.
Audience member: Yeah. That’s what I’m saying. Yeah. He has the power because of great power comes great responsibility. So when I think about. And I remember I picked up
Tim Stuckey: a lot of comments from all over the southern spider man with it. We launched in the ultimate line because I wanted him to at least say, okay, I’m This is a character that’s been through a lot, but he powered through.
He powered through to still healthy. So if I could create my own characters and say, listen, yes, we know there’s craziness going on around me, but you can power through it. This is a character that should have been cuddled up in the corner saying, I’m not going to do nothing no more. And many times it was written well, where he questioned, even if I should go on, gave up the costume, but realized he had a purpose.
So for every human being out here that’s going through this, they have a purpose. I try to remind people, no matter what you’re going through, you have a purpose. You may not be an actual superhero character, but you still have a purpose, because God created you to be here for a reason. My work was just to create work and art to remind people of.
But every single person, yeah, hopefully comics will remind us of that, to, it does, to overcome obstacles, to power through things. And, and books. Films, movies have done that well. Help us, no matter who does it. I watch anime, I watch so many, I watch Star Wars. Okay, no black people in Star Wars, but still, great story.
No, no, I’m talking about the first Star Wars. The first, the first Star Wars, which me, I love, blew my mind away. Built an X Wing fighter from paper and all that stuff. But the point was, afterwards, yes, we have cool Lando, not Colt 45 Lando. We’re talking about pre go launch, traveling all star, mahogany Lando.
Alvin Pettit: Yes,
Tim Stuckey: yes, it sported
Alvin Pettit: well.
Tim Stuckey: But to Lucas credit, he had them where he, he ran this whole place, which was great. But the point is, at the end of the day, Our creativity books influence us on the path. And we have to remember our work, no matter what it does, influences others and helps others. As Anthony pointed out, that’s what it’s about.
Understanding the trauma and understanding how people are empowered to work through it. And I think, you know, I went to Berry Lane, and I’ll say this real quick so you can answer my friend. They had the Juneteenth celebration. I went down there and met so many incredible people that in their own right They felt like superheroes to me.
In conversation, they shared the traumas, the stories they went through to create the products that they have. They themselves are superheroes. So we have to remember that we are that in so many ways. That we have a purpose. And I think that’s the great thing about it. Sorry for going on. I’m sorry. So, I’m about to take some questions from the
Alvin Pettit: audience.
I just have one last thing I’d like to say. Anthony, I’m going to direct this to you. From one comic book artist. Well, former comic book artist, Maeve. Oh, no, you’re still an artist, you know. Not as a comic book artist. I studied it, but, you know, did it more professionally. But I guess, growing up, you know, we’re around the same Generation X years.
And you and I have had this conversation, like, I think you and I have had a very interesting conversation on this. How do you feel as a black artist coming up with the generation that we came up in? I don’t know. And I did an interview with CBS last night, and I brought up the fact that they asked me some questions about this event.
And one of the things I brought up about the time that I grew up in, the 70s and 80s being a Gen X er of that age, And the representation, the lack of representation that was in comic books. And you and I think when we were talking about the old classic comics, And whoever’s in here maybe over 40 may know how to draw the Marvel way.
Or whatever that came out years ago. And even in that book, it tells you, do not draw a nose too big. Do not draw a lips too thick. I think Buscema was the artist or whatever. I can’t remember. John Buscema. And it really tells you how not to draw a hero and how to draw and a hero, what a hero looks like, what a pretty woman looks like, whatever.
And the nose can’t be too fat. So with all that being said and done, And I remember, I said in an interview last night, and I spoke about my mother, my mother was here tonight somewhere, I don’t know what she’s doing around, but I remember she sat me down, I was maybe like 11 or 12 years old, and I would create my own characters, I had all sketchbooks high, just characters that I created, and none of them were black.
And my mother sat me down one night and she says, why do you never, how come you never draw any black people? And I’m like a kid that, you know, just, I’m like, I don’t know how to answer that because I’m 11 or 12 years old. And I just didn’t know, and I said, and I thought about it for a while and I said, I just draw what I see.
And I was, it was so subconscious, and that’s when it really becomes almost Even worse than being conscious, because you don’t even realize you’re not even representing yourself in your own art. Because all the heroes I saw were Steve Rogers and Captain America. Or Batman, or Superman, or Super Friends.
There were no, I think, what Super Friends had Black Lightning. Black Lightning, yeah, but he was like a side character, and he had a patch of cheese. You know, history. So, but basically, it was a world that didn’t represent us, but we loved, and we loved the genre, and we were very fascinated by it, and very attrentive to this comic book fans as kids.
But to me it almost, and luckily I have my mother and parents kind of even bring that up to me to make me conscious of it. So I had to at some point in early age almost had to make a conscious decision to draw my own people. And I just wanted to get your feedback on that as another black artist around the same time how you dealt with that.
Tim Stuckey: Oh yeah, to be honest with you I I went through the same. Thing that you went through. But I was blessed because along with I grew up in an era where it was John Romita Sr.. He came out after SteveDitkoo doing Spider Man. And he introduced Robbie, who was the assistant editor of the Daily Bugle magazine.
This was, you know, a black male character that was in there. Then there was other characters. For me, drawing See, the problem for me in what I experienced was I didn’t have that easy access to comics, to be honest with you. So when I was able to get comics and I wanted to draw, the only reference I had to draw was comic book characters in those books.
You know, I didn’t have an anatomy book. I wasn’t taught to get an anatomy book. I wasn’t, taught where, what we have today, which is what I recommend, I recommend students, anatomy books Will Eisner books, all of this. So, the comics that I had that really didn’t have a whole lot of black characters in it early on, was the Caucasian characters.
And I just said, well, I’m just going to draw superheroes and that’s it. Until the 80s. This late 70s and 80s came along when you started seeing more and you started to create them. During those 80s, I teamed up with you know, a dear brother who passed on named Robert Garrett who created a number of books.
And many of the books we did, and this was in high school, was like team focused because at that time in the 80s you had, you know, more black characters coming out. You had, you know, The, the team Storm from the X Men, you had Cyborg from the Teen Titans. Then you had, you know, other characters coming out.
So we was like, we’re going to make some cool characters. If we, you know, it was, it was multicultural, but we was like, you know, more characters of color. And I, if I had a way of showing you, I could show early stuff that I did as a kid of showing that. And my preference to draw on it was seeing. My aunts, my uncles, and people around me, I turned them into comic book characters.
I looked at their facial features and looked at them. Because there was always heroes. Because they raised me. I just made them into characters. A lot of the stories I do, I take the names and stuff and I base it on family members. You know, family members are gone on pass away. I don’t know. I remember a good friend say write what you know, create what you know.
But this is what I know. You know, I have, believe it or not, I had, but blessed to still have a great number, but at one time, 17 uncles. You know 13 of them direct, other than by marriage. And then a shroom adds three, but, you know, direct blood, others by marriage. So being blessed to have them as a reference and started using them as a reference was, was great.
You know, having the comics to show me that dynamic ness or the greatness and the power of showing the boards, but then applying it when I started becoming aware that you need more of this. But I was blessed to grow up. Like, I give a lot of credit to if anyone familiar with filmation animation. David and Goliath when you think about Tarzan, the Lone Ranger, all of that. Tarzan, where he was, he had a little more melatonin because they did him a little bit realistic. Yes, he was European, but if you’re out in the sun long enough, you develop melatonin. He had a little more color to him. Yeah, he had a little tan, which was, I’ve watched it recently, and I’m like, oh, that’s, that makes sense.
But he had characters of color. That they created that was positive. But I said, for me, that’s what I want to do to create and have fun doing it and get back at it. That’s what I hope I answered your question. Alright. So
Alvin Pettit: we’re way over time, but I do want to take some questions from the audience, from these two gentlemen.
And guys, at this point, we’re trying to keep it within maybe two or three minutes. If you have a response, we’ll take it from here. So who had a hand first?
Audience member: So how do you feel about race swapping pre existing characters for new integrations and new, like, universes and contexts? Because I know DC has, for example, rebooted Commissioner Gordon, made in black. I personally am an advocate for that. I think that’s fine. But I think for some characters it’s integral to their identity to stay the race they are.
For example, a Clark Kent Superman. I would always imagine it’s white because it was created by Jewish people in World War II. So I think that’s very, like, integral to the development in, like, his symbolism. But for other characters, I think it’s completely fine. So I want to know what your
Tim Stuckey: opinion is.
Oh, which one? Oh, during the talk.
Alvin Pettit: I’ll let Hugo first.
Anthony: Sorry. Okay. This couldn’t possibly backfire on me in anyway.
Tim Stuckey: I’m gonna tell you from a biblical standpoint, speak the truth. Speak to God’s truth. You never go wrong. Oh, no, no.
Anthony: I, I know, I’m, I’m just joking. . No, no, I, oh gosh. I’m gonna go viral for all the wrong reasons. No, no, I think again to your point, and I’m not trying to cop out by kind of copying your answer, but I do think for certain characters it can work.
For certain characters, yes, it is. It is integral. You know, the common response whenever. A formerly white character is, is drawn as black or, or reimagined as, as black or Latino or, or a person of color is always, Oh, well, then why not just have a white black panther? And I’m like, that’s, that’s not the case at all because it’s not, it’s not inherent to the identity.
It’s not inherent to the identity. You know, somebody like, to your point, like like a Clark Kent or a Steve Rogers. I mean, Steve Rogers, another character was created. You know, again, by two Jewish men in the 30s, but also the whole point of Steve Rogers is he is, you know, white, blonde hair, blue eyed.
He’s the Aryan ideal to then turn around and be the counterpoint to Adolf Hitler. So the whiteness is inherent to Steve Rogers as a persona. Whiteness is not inherent necessarily to somebody like a Peter Parker. But I also think that’s why they created Miles Morales was so that, you know to kind of, I guess, avoid some of the backlash there.
But you could turn so many characters where their race isn’t inherent to who they are as, as a character, you know, like like a secondary or tertiary character. I have, I personally have no qualms with it. I think as long as you write the character themselves as relatable. And again, I know it’s gonna sound like a cop out, but I honestly don’t care one way or the other, what their skin color is, as long as they are a relatable character, as long as they are a three dimensional character, and as long as they’re portrayed in a way where it’s, they’re not just a caricature or they’re, they’re a flat archetype.
type it doesn’t matter to me but I know a lot of people that look like me care a lot more about those kinds of things because it’s It speaks more to them as, their, their identity is more tied up in the whiteness. And so any attempt to change that is going to be seen as an attack on them, either personally or culturally.
Again, I don’t care. There’s 311 characters that look like me. And, and have looked like me because everything’s been tailored for the people that look like me. I’m, I’m totally okay if, if, you know, it doesn’t have to, it doesn’t have to be tailored towards me. So, I’m, I’m totally okay with that.
Tim Stuckey: First off, good point, but I’m going to answer his question first. I have no problem with it because we have to think about the times when these comics were created. They wasn’t thinking about us. Jeffrey Wright did an excellent job portraying Jim Gordon in the recent Batman. You know, one of my favorite Batman movies so far because Matt Reeves, who directed it, did a great job with the ensemble and putting together it with the story.
So I like the answer that Anthony has given because it is about the integrity of it. I know that recently for the upcoming Superman movie, they have and they went I think they went back to African American Perry White, you know, to use him. They’re introducing Mr. Terrific, Mr., Terrific, thank you. So they recently showed pictures. So, they, they’re making strides, but the problem that I have with the, the current industry is that, are you still giving it the heart? And I think we all know when you’ve been here. Spider Man into Spider Verse in those films. Excellent. They, they had heart. They had me.
You know, it’s like one academy war because everyone enjoyed and related to that. And, and I want Hollywood, because they finally have a hard time understanding. There is depth and story that you have to get back to. Early in the conversation I spoke today, soul food, soul music, things like that. Stay tuned.
The films, and not because it’s totally black, but the Spider Man, Spider Verse and Black Panther are part of the first movies where I can really say, wow, these are soul movies. They speak to the soul, they speak to that. Not like other films that have been out that speak otherwise, but yeah, that, that, that speaks soul.
So now I experience soul movies.
Alvin Pettit: That’s a very interesting question, because it almost breeds, Into other questions, like for instance, could you have changed the identity of a character like Matt Murdock, whose ethnicity is so tied up into his character of being a white Irish man, Catholic? You know, would that be believable by just changing him into a black Catholic?
Probably wouldn’t have the same appeal. Could you actually change, maybe 50 years ago, could you have done the same thing with Bruce Wayne? Where it would have been believable that he’s the richest, coming from the richest family in a major city. Would that have been believable? So, yeah, such a good question, because when you change these I mean, put Perry White as just, you know, he’s a secondary character, it’s easy to do.
When you start talking about your main characters, and all the story that’s bagged up around them. The audience has to buy it. You know, we have to believe it. Whether you’re black or white, we have to, it has to be something that we can relate to as a, as a, as a plausible reality. And that’s just a, it’s almost a deeper topic of the topic, really almost a discussion itself.
Who’s next?
Audience member: First of all, I want to thank you gentlemen for that crazy, this is my first Black Comic Con panel. This is, I want to take it back to mental health for me. This young man is just like my favorite hero. Batman comes close to this. What do you think of the anti hero? Like a spawn. Like, I feel good. But I’m not.
Tim Stuckey: Okay, I’ll finish what you’re talking about. It’s on your show, yeah.
Anthony: Yeah to that point, we did an episode on Spawn, and I think, I think the antihero is, is a fascinating concept because I think it speaks Gosh, again, I’m really trying to limit myself to, you know, a short time frame of an answer here, but it really speaks to the The nature of philosophy of what is good, are you judging somebody by the effect of their actions?
Are you judging them by the intent of their actions? By what metric are you, are you looking at them? You know, because again, you can look at somebody like, like a Frank Castle where, from one perspective, okay, he’s, he’s eliminating drug dealers and people who, who are going to hurt other, other people.
Okay. He’s taking that kind of evil off the street, but the manner in which he’s doing it is, you know, very, very final, and it’s very hurtful to the people, and it doesn’t allow for any kind of redemption. And, and his own internal trauma is, is the basis for that. So there’s so many nuances to look at that and I think the best stories are the ones where you understand where they’re coming from and you know to kind of bring it back to a film that you were just talking about Black Panther there was so much discussion about you know Killmonger was right and I think that he was one of the most well written villains quote unquote in in cinema because There was a reality and a logic to his actions and to his basis where you go, I may not necessarily agree with everything he’s, he’s, you know, the end result of what he’s doing, but I really can’t say he’s, he’s rooted in anything wrong, you know?
And so that’s, that’s what made that film so powerful, was that kind of a basis. Killmonger, less, you know, you can certainly make the argument that he’s, He’s less villainous, he’s not a full anti hero, he’s somewhere in between, but that, that nuance and that, that gray area is, is beautiful and the best stories are the ones that can pull that off in a, in a really impactful way.
Tim Stuckey: To be honest with you, there’s not much I can really say on it because I agree with what Anthony said. The
Anthony: anti hero and
Tim Stuckey: the anti character. I, I think what makes an anti character More compelling is because they are titillating on that, that middle line. When you think about Wolverine, Wolverine, like people say, you know, it’s a favorite character of a lot of people, but what really makes him a favorite?
Is it because he’s got the claws, he can slice people up? No, it’s because he’s always struggling. With the Zerko rage, he’s trying to, so, yes, so here, he’s a great example of trying to do right by keeping from being angered, being, you know, put in a situation where you don’t think. So, And then, how to cope, which if you follow his character real quick, he gets into Japanese philosophy, Bushido, he, he learns to relax, he becomes a samurai, he learns to focus, he, I’m not going to be preserved or raised like I was in the beginning, you know, and, and, and he comes a long way.
So, yeah, that’s, that’s, I can point out.
Alvin Pettit: And anything that I would talk about the other day. As far as the whole anti hero thing, I think I was a little bit more pro Frank Castle and he was a little bit more against it. Because I mean, the way I look at it a little bit is kind of like in some ways you’re right, there’s a bit of a difference there.
We were talking about the contrast between Frank Castle and Matt Murdock, where one believes Matt Murdock can be a daredevil, one believes everybody deserves a second chance. Castle believes, you know, you know, you keep letting them go and they come back, you’ve got to do this, you know, when I put it down, they stay down.
So, and then I was hoping you could bring it up in the sense that When you look at, like, even criminals in our society, or whatever, like, a Charles Manson or a Jeffrey Dahmer. Why do we keep them around? I mean, they’re not redeemable. But there are some people that are. So, is that somebody where Frank Cassidy was right?
Or, you know, Matt Murdock, which is funny. Let me just go on forever. But that was just another topic that Anthony and I were having in the office. Another question, and then we’re going to have to wrap this up. Anybody else? Okay, then. I think we have another panel discussion coming up a little after four.
The food truck is on its way outside. We got dirt and chicken coming, so if anybody’s hungry, you can grab something to eat. Thank you, gentlemen, for being here. This is a wonderful discussion. We don’t have a lot longer, but that’s what it is.
Tim Stuckey: Thank you very much for those great questions. And
Anthony: to Alvin and the fantastic staff here at the Bethune Center for putting on this event.